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jamesc

The Department of Conservation.

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OK ..... This is a sensitive topic, and I air it only out of public spiritedness, and the fact that these days I tend to  live by the day with very little forward planning for next year or the year after, as one gets to a stage in life that , although planning for the next few generations is important , ons's own life has seen the best of years and what is left needs to be enjoyed.

So ...... The beekeeping game thirty years ago was pretty casual.  These days the game has changed.

We have always been based in Canterbury, but have run bees on the Coast for quite a few years as a backstop for when the Canterbury clover dried out. This year was no exception and we moved bees to the coast, and put in some new sites.

Now, we all know that when hunting for sites you cruise around a lot, and come accross some sweet places, and then track down the landowner and put you case forward. Sometimes it works, sometimes it does'nt , but as in all cases of love and war there are winners and losers.

This year we had a site where we had the blessing of the landowner to place bees. So we did.  Five days later we had a call from an irate beekeeper saying that we had placed bees on DOC land and that he had a concession from DOC for that site, which seemed strange, as there was a definite boundary fence denoting a border and the landowner had agreed that the site was perfect.

Now we have farmed up our gully for many years and have accepted the fact that our neighbour has been farming some of our land for over a hundred years, just like on another block, where we have been farming forestry land for not quite a hundred.

The short of it is that DOC have issued a summons that we appear in court to explain the error of our ways, and face a category three charge punishable by life imprisonement or a 300 k fine.

 

The legal perspective is that we are better to plead guilty . The insurance company picks up all the costs, and we pay the excess although the judge may hand down a life sentence and no one  from the insurance company has fronted up as to  who is gonna do the life sentence.  Or we plead "not guilty yer honour" .....  which in my mind is the true and correct plea, and hope that common sense prevails.

 

The interesting thing is that after we had paid DOC the hive site fee of $30 /hive  plus the concession application fee there would have been ###### all left for the labour and diesel to run the site let alone pay tax to allow the Gvt to grow a  wannbe billion dollar industry.

 

Thirty years ago a phone conversation with the affected beekeeper would have sorted the matter. How the times have changed. 

 

 

 

 

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Not sure why you would plead guilty James if you dropped them onto the spot agreed with the landowner... and on his "side" of the fence. 

Clearly the landowners boundary fence needs a spruce up so surely you are simply the honey in the sandwich here, no? 

Unless of course you new full well where the boundary was and just tried ya luck anyway.. ( not suggesting this at all by the way) 

there are many boundary  fences on the wrong spot, my own block included, seems this beekeeper on DOC confession has a bee in his bonnet. 

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You are onto it Stoney ..... It just p's me off that we had to spend more money on seeing justice done when it was/ is a no brainer. But there ya go. When that B keep man comes over the hill and needs assistance I might just be tooo busy.

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Seems pretty harsh to me.. 

we had a wee moment where a few quads spent last winter on the wrong spot in southwestland, simple mistake,  midnight delivery ... wrong roadside clearing. 

Worked them there all spring before receiving an email stating the mistake. 

We were given 2months to move them but shifted them pretty quick as it was a damp dark hole of a spot. 

My question is.. how come it's gone to court?  

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If this is Ed's place talk to his dad he will know exactly where there land is doc have no clue

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not guilty. screw the scum beekeepers doing the complaining, and screw DoC for not sorting their #### out in an appropriate manner

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40 minutes ago, glynn said:

If this is Ed's place talk to his dad he will know exactly where there land is doc have no clue

I have been trying to find out if some pines trees I want to cut down for firewood  are on DOC land or council land .

My friends in the  DOC office  could not tell me where the boundary was cause they no longer have  a map .

I gave the DOC staff the co ordinates and they sent them away up the food chain .

But still no one knew where the boundary was with council land.

 

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8 hours ago, Stoney said:

Seems pretty harsh to me.. 

we had a wee moment where a few quads spent last winter on the wrong spot in southwestland, simple mistake,  midnight delivery ... wrong roadside clearing. 

Worked them there all spring before receiving an email stating the mistake. 

We were given 2months to move them but shifted them pretty quick as it was a damp dark hole of a spot. 

My question is.. how come it's gone to court?  

Not sure. It seems like a lot of wasted time for everyone concerned ..... maybe the courts are'nt very busy, or maybe DOC have finished building campsites and loos for Freedom campers and are working on job creation schemes .... or maybe the beekeeper and the DOC man went to school together .....

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7 hours ago, kaihoka said:

I have been trying to find out if some pines trees I want to cut down for firewood  are on DOC land or council land .

My friends in the  DOC office  could not tell me where the boundary was cause they no longer have  a map .

I gave the DOC staff the co ordinates and they sent them away up the food chain .

But still no one knew where the boundary was with council land.

 

Quickest way to find out is to chop the trees down ......:9_innocent:

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Is this the  same site you posted about where there was another beekeeper with hives literally 50 yards away ?

if it is I have to say I would side with the other beekeeper.

to me if there’s already bees in the area it doesn’t matter if you get permission from a landowner to place hives the other guy was already there and he has first dibs.

you have to look at how you would feel if someone rocked up and put 40 hives within spitting distance of one of your sites.

 

If his hives were there when you looked at the site then the fault is yours if they weren’t then the beekeeper should have approached you first before going to DOC

Edited by frazzledfozzle
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No ..... this is another !!

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Did you see the hives did you know another beekeeper was there ?

im getting to hate the whole business of beekeeping :( 

 

Edited by frazzledfozzle
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There were no hives there and we had the blessing of the landowner. 

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"As a civilisation we only grow when we push boundaries and find out what works and what does'nt ..... and sometimes it's not very civil"      Quote. JC

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Its neigh on impossible to maintain a decent seperation between apiarys now with the sheer numbers being moved around .  Most farmers wouldnt have the faintest clue wether there are a thousand hives next door , or the valley is empty . Then the next day 500 get trucked in etc etc . I'm fortunate that I can get a birds eye veiw of whats going on , but even then  spots that were clear one week can be over crowded the next . 

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Why didn't you go online and find an aerial map and make sure the site was on your land owner's land before placing hives there?

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We got trespassed off land we don't even have bees on, and ordered to pay $200+ gst a hive within 14 days or they will take our hives and sell to recover rental they believe we owe.  Our hives are 1km away from the property.  Scary.  

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1 hour ago, frazzledfozzle said:

m getting to hate the whole business of beekeeping

 

I get what you mean.  I feel it's much harder to accept things when you know what's going on and you don't like it.  Though mostly we don't really know what's going on and we speculate it's all bad. 

I have friends who don't mix much with other beekeepers and get on with their own job.  Seems to work being ignorant, especially when the changes don't impact you. 

 

 

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2 hours ago, jamesc said:

Quickest way to find out is to chop the trees down ......:9_innocent:

That's the plan .

Friends in DOC say they do not care.

They turn a blind eye to removal of wilding pines.

It's just all the legal compliance stuff, that slows all practical solutions these days , that worries them.

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1 hour ago, Lindaloo26 said:

 

I get what you mean.  I feel it's much harder to accept things when you know what's going on and you don't like it.  Though mostly we don't really know what's going on and we speculate it's all bad. 

I have friends who don't mix much with other beekeepers and get on with their own job.  Seems to work being ignorant, especially when the changes don't impact you. 

 

 

 

I know I shouldn’t get uptight with the goings on and just concentrate on what we do and how we do it.

i just find it hard to shut my fat mouth about what’s happening around me. :( 

 

you are right I have no clue what’s happening in the honey market in particular right now, it’s very unsettling and it’s most definitely having an impact on us and others zi have talked too. I guess that’s why I’m quite negative at the moment. :( 

 

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2 hours ago, jamesc said:

There were no hives there and we had the blessing of the landowner. 

 

Well that really sucks then and I have to wonder at the motives of the other beekeeper involved that he didn’t just call you and ask you to move on.

is there bad blood between you 

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2 minutes ago, frazzledfozzle said:

 

Well that really sucks then and I have to wonder at the motives of the other beekeeper involved that he didn’t just call you and ask you to move on.

is there bad blood between you 

Nah .... no bad blood on my part .... I read somewhere a while ago a question  by a young fellah asking why most Beekeepers were fifty something, grey haired and grumpy!

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2 hours ago, Queen Bee said:

We got trespassed off land we don't even have bees on, and ordered to pay $200+ gst a hive within 14 days or they will take our hives and sell to recover rental they believe we owe.  Our hives are 1km away from the property.  Scary.  

Did you pay up ?

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@jamesc I would be pleading my case with DOC if I was you I think what they are doing is BS

Edited by frazzledfozzle

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