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dansar

Syrup tank and pump layouts

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I have just purchased a “seconds” tank from TT Plastics and was wondering what setup you all have for mounting petrol pumps. I have two options as far as I can see where I won’t loose any more space than is taken up already. 

I will make up a base to mount the tank to as it needs to be up off the deck for pipe fittings to connect easily.

I can mount the pump at the side in front of the crane footing or make up a bracket to have the pump above the tank probably getting up to the level of the mast of the crane. The latter option probably makes it easier to plumb in taps and a “T” outlets for the feed out hose.

 

I am interested in your ideas. Cheers, Daniel.

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Kinda hard to suggest something- depends on pump size really.  Yes, the space by crane foot is a good option.  Though I think it could be a bit tight, might encroach onto deck behind? 

Under the deck would be awesome-  I haven't done it - just reckon it's a good space (bit tight for filling it up with fuel!) 

Random idea.- Could you put it under the tank?  I know it's not the norm, though the tank is smallish (from a stability point of view) and your making a frame for it anyway. 

Create a 'boxed' space for the pump and maybe some other beekeeping gear. 

The stability might be a consideration though.  Also plumbing it, and heat from exhaust, and filling it... 

Pumps are good- though not an essential.  You could just drain into buckets?  I know seems caveman - not sure how many hives you got.  I use a pump but have used a bucket plenty of times.  They are good when you want to finish hives as you work, like during spring.  NO need for fuel, hose...  Put a large drain and valve on it.  It's fast enough. 

Set up the frame underneath with a good angle to drain one way.  Just a thought.  

I use those Man Lake feeders with closed tops- not easy to pour sugar into- 

 

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41 minutes ago, yesbut said:

Bolt it to your cab roof

might as well bolt it to the steering wheel..

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1 hour ago, yesbut said:

Bolt it to your cab roof.

Like this?

 

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After today I'm fully over buckets and thinking I need a tank I've got a few electric pumps to try before I go for the petrol pump. 

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5 hours ago, dansar said:

I have just purchased a “seconds” tank from TT Plastics and was wondering what setup you all have for mounting petrol pumps. I have two options as far as I can see where I won’t loose any more space than is taken up already. 

I will make up a base to mount the tank to as it needs to be up off the deck for pipe fittings to connect easily.

I can mount the pump at the side in front of the crane footing or make up a bracket to have the pump above the tank probably getting up to the level of the mast of the crane. The latter option probably makes it easier to plumb in taps and a “T” outlets for the feed out hose.

 

I am interested in your ideas. Cheers, Daniel.

 

 

pump needs to be on the deck (or lower) so it can prime.

simple thing is to make a frame for the tank and pump (plus hoses etc) to all sit on. then hopefully you can crane it on/off.

 keep the exhaust away from the tank. that may dictate how it sits. also how you can get in a pull start it.

 

 

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1 hour ago, tristan said:

pump needs to be on the deck (or lower) so it can prime.

simple thing is to make a frame for the tank and pump (plus hoses etc) to all sit on. then hopefully you can crane it on/off.

 keep the exhaust away from the tank. that may dictate how it sits. also how you can get in a pull start it.

 

 

Pump may be going above the tank. It is easy to prime the pump so no issues there. The crane will easily lift it off.

2 hours ago, glynn said:

After today I'm fully over buckets and thinking I need a tank I've got a few electric pumps to try before I go for the petrol pump. 

Yes I know what you mean. I spent last week getting  around 100 colonies with 20 and 30 litre containers. That got pretty old very quickly.

Edited by dansar

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51 minutes ago, dansar said:

Pump may be going above the tank. It is easy to prime the pump so no issues there. The crane will easily lift it off.

pumps don't suck uphill very well. you would need a one way valve at the tank to stop it draining back and assist the pump.

kinda hard to prime the pump when it just drains straight back to the tank.

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We're doing 2500 hives with buckets it's doable but not easy. We don't do a hell of a lot of feeding usually though, hopefully it's only 20% need feeding although last year it was almost 50%

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On 3/27/2018 at 9:13 PM, dansar said:

I spent last week getting  around 100 colonies with 20 and 30 litre containers

 

Yep, that would do it!  Get long arms as well.  Try a smaller bucket?  Your lugging 25 kilos a arm or more.  

We use an impeller -  large Jabsco flexible impeller attached to small petrol engine (not cheap).  Sucks syrup like an elephant. Flow rate thick syrup- 10-12 seconds to fill 6 liters.  It sits on the deck and draws out of the top of steel drums.  No need for syrup bypass, the impeller doesn't allow too much pressure build up.  

 

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1 hour ago, Lindaloo26 said:

 

Yep, that would do it!  Get long arms as well.  Try a smaller bucket?  Your lugging 25 kilos a arm or more.  

We use an impeller -  large Jabsco flexible impeller attached to small petrol engine (not cheap).  Sucks syrup like an elephant. Flow rate thick syrup- 10-12 seconds to fill 6 liters.  It sits on the deck and draws out of the top of steel drums.  No need for syrup bypass, the impeller doesn't allow too much pressure build up.  

 

Any chance of a photo of the pump I would of thought that type of pump would blow it's inpeller

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Square tank ..... oh.   Maybe you are'nt mixing you're own syrup , but it mixes better in a tank with curves.  Put the pump level with the bottom of the tank , bolted to the same frame as the tank . Suck out the bottom with a 50mm outlet, recirculate through the top. If you want to mix recirculate through 50 mm as well . Put a tap in the recirc pipe and a 20 mm outlet before the tap  for a loooong hose with a petrol type nozzle on the end. Then when you want to feed syrup, close the recirc tap and you got lotsa pressure coming out yer nozzle. A long pipe saves a lot of time and energy lugging buckets !

We mix all our syrup cold ...... 25 bags in a 1000 lt tank with a 9hp petrol motor that whangs it all around and by the time we get to the first yard the syrup is mixed.. Somewhere on here there are heaps of posts about that too.

Edited by jamesc
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2 hours ago, Lindaloo26 said:

 

Yep, that would do it!  Get long arms as well.  Try a smaller bucket?  Your lugging 25 kilos a arm or more.  

We use an impeller -  large Jabsco flexible impeller attached to small petrol engine (not cheap).  Sucks syrup like an elephant. Flow rate thick syrup- 10-12 seconds to fill 6 liters.  It sits on the deck and draws out of the top of steel drums.  No need for syrup bypass, the impeller doesn't allow too much pressure build up.  

 

yep good pumps, and could be mounted very easy on top of your tank. Also look at baffle balls to place inside of tank, takes all the surging out of it when you brake, cnr and speed up.

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31 minutes ago, jamesc said:

Square tank ..... oh.   Maybe you are'nt mixing you're own syrup , but it mixes better in a tank with curves.  Put the pump level with the bottom of the tank , bolted to the same frame as the tank . Suck out the bottom with a 50mm outlet, recirculate through the top. If you want to mix recirculate through 50 mm as well . Put a tap in the recirc pipe and a 20 mm outlet before the tap  for a loooong hose with a petrol type nozzle on the end. Then when you want to feed syrup, close the recirc tap and you got lotsa pressure coming out yer nozzle. A long pipe saves a lot of time and energy lugging buckets !

We mix all our syrup cold ...... 25 bags in a 1000 lt tank with a 9hp petrol motor that whangs it all around and by the time we get to the first yard the syrup is mixed.. Somewhere on here there are heaps of posts about that too.

 

Dansar has a mixing set up in a drum, in previous posts.  Yep, round much better to mix in.  

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This is what I ended up doing. Space for the pump at the side of the tank was a problem and I didn’t want to come out any further on to the deck. 

Took a couple of goes to get all the leaks stopped but all good to go now. I made a frame around the tank so I could mount the pump on top. I’m a woodworker so used what I had on hand. I will make up a steel frame one day (excuse for a welder ?).

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1 hour ago, glynn said:

Any chance of a photo of the pump I would of thought that type of pump would blow it's inpeller

 

Here it is.  It's an old one- over 10 years probably 15-  it does now leak via the seals, which is a pain as bees rob this and syrup on the deck  Just a drip as the pump runs but it adds up.  I run the 'in' line empty if I am finished for day as it can siphon the syrup over time from drum.

It has pumped many thousands of liters.   Outlived another engine- the one attached is another 2nd hand unit.  Might replace the seals... one job down, down the bottom of a list to forgottendom.   I place a beehive lid over the pump. Only comes off for refueling.  It's pretty heavy, the frame is damn solid. Everything sits on a long pallet which can be taken off with forks as one piece. 

 

 

pump.jpg

pump1.jpg

pump2.jpg

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7 minutes ago, dansar said:

This is what I ended up doing. Space for the pump at the side of the tank was a problem and I didn’t want to come out any further on to the deck. 

Took a couple of goes to get all the leaks stopped but all good to go now. I made a frame around the tank so I could mount the pump on top. I’m a woodworker so used what I had on hand. I will make up a steel frame one day (excuse for a welder ?).

67884F49-FFF7-47EA-A7F3-8EE14AE1B387.thumb.jpeg.b997dff95f221966990e24769a69bd64.jpegB283100F-C8E3-499C-A4AC-0D1C721EE465.thumb.jpeg.126c59b0f80c52e22f74be6703810384.jpeg2720C473-F488-4F2D-B139-435CCB7EF454.thumb.jpeg.6011cc16c468d998facde2941cfc7153.jpeg922954EC-C0D1-423B-A200-7AADD18B772B.thumb.jpeg.cae752f161828a85a792405b138f7455.jpeg

 

Looks good.  I like the wood work.  Much better looking than plastic.  

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Just now, Lindaloo26 said:

Looks good.  I like the wood work.  Much better looking than plastic.  

Best part is the plywood was free. I dumpster dived at a job I was doing a couple of weeks back?

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@dansaris the pump from TM? There are similar ones for under $300(6.5HP semi-trash water pump) however I do not know how good they are.

 

An electric one I am looking at in Mitre10 is $200(made in Germany - Al-ko Jet 3500, 850W). I am not sure if this one will deal with the sugar so easily. The specification says clear water only however I spoke with a gentleman from Mitre10's customer service and he thinks it may do the job.

 

Who is using electric pump?

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4 minutes ago, Kiwi Bee said:

@dansaris the pump from TM? There are similar ones for under $300(6.5HP semi-trash water pump) however I do not know how good they are.

 

An electric one I am looking at in Mitre10 is $200(made in Germany - Al-ko Jet 3500, 850W). I am not sure if this one will deal with the sugar so easily. The specification says clear water only however I spoke with a gentleman from Mitre10's customer service and he thinks it may do the job.

 

Who is using electric pump?

2:1 syrup is very difficult to pump.  Semi Trash is the way to go.  Also it is best to use 50mm hose as it is easier on the pump.

 

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Thank you @Trevor Gillbanks. I  watched a youtube video about a sugar mixing setup using an electric sump pump(USA beekeeper) in a plastic drum. I want my setup mobile so I can put it away in the garage when it is not needed. Today I got the drum(200L) and made a cut out at the top. Next will be the pump, semi-trash one.

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34 minutes ago, Kiwi Bee said:

@dansaris the pump from TM? There are similar ones for under $300(6.5HP semi-trash water pump) however I do not know how good they are.

 

An electric one I am looking at in Mitre10 is $200(made in Germany - Al-ko Jet 3500, 850W). I am not sure if this one will deal with the sugar so easily. The specification says clear water only however I spoke with a gentleman from Mitre10's customer service and he thinks it may do the job.

 

Who is using electric pump?

 

28 minutes ago, Trevor Gillbanks said:

2:1 syrup is very difficult to pump.  Semi Trash is the way to go.  Also it is best to use 50mm hose as it is easier on the pump.

 

 

the weird thing is that trash pumps are not suited to syrup at all. they are the wrong type of pump. but because they are so big and run off a big engine the they actually pump thick syrup.

run water through them and you will see a huge difference in flow. even 1:1 syrup you pretty much have to run it at idle. 

 

there is a few people running 12v electric pumps with a different type of pump.

you would have to look at the type of pump that alko unit uses and that will give you an idea of how well it will pump syrup. if your mixing sugar watch the max temp ratings. they don't handle hot water.

centrifugal style pumps don't like thick liquids. need high pressure sealed type actions, eg diaphragm pump or a gear pump.

 

in the extraction room we have rubber impeller pumps, progressive cavity pumps, but the fastest flowing pump is a small diameter (half the size) gear pump. very old and worn but still out does every other pump.

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6 hours ago, Kiwi Bee said:

@dansaris the pump from TM? There are similar ones for under $300(6.5HP semi-trash water pump) however I do not know how good they are.

 

An electric one I am looking at in Mitre10 is $200(made in Germany - Al-ko Jet 3500, 850W). I am not sure if this one will deal with the sugar so easily. The specification says clear water only however I spoke with a gentleman from Mitre10's customer service and he thinks it may do the job.

 

Who is using electric pump?

Yes it is. It is a 2” (50mm) model. I have plumbed in a bypass tap to have a take-off hose of 25mm id for the feedout tap/hose. With warm water it easily mixes 2:1 syrup, 1:1 is a piece of cake with cold water.

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6 hours ago, tristan said:

 

 

the weird thing is that trash pumps are not suited to syrup at all. they are the wrong type of pump. but because they are so big and run off a big engine the they actually pump thick syrup.

run water through them and you will see a huge difference in flow. even 1:1 syrup you pretty much have to run it at idle. 

 

there is a few people running 12v electric pumps with a different type of pump.

you would have to look at the type of pump that alko unit uses and that will give you an idea of how well it will pump syrup. if your mixing sugar watch the max temp ratings. they don't handle hot water.

centrifugal style pumps don't like thick liquids. need high pressure sealed type actions, eg diaphragm pump or a gear pump.

 

in the extraction room we have rubber impeller pumps, progressive cavity pumps, but the fastest flowing pump is a small diameter (half the size) gear pump. very old and worn but still out does every other pump.

Uh Huh .... sometimes the tortoise stillout runs the hare ..... we have three very old gear pumps that shift a lot of honey.

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