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1 hour ago, Stoney said:

All our decent farms with Manuka want maximum beehives  in at the right time and strength and access is sometimes freshly dozed/ tidied up clay tracks, or sometimes goat tracks.. 

Part time/small time beefarmers would struggle to keep up with the commercials running traceability programs, h&s policies , reliability with vehicles, timeframes and income shares.... 

And simply wouldn't have the hive numbers to make it stack up. 

Then of course there's the guys that promise the huge hive numbers and profits, lock in 5 yr contracts but deliver only hot air. 

News travels fast.. bad news even faster, there's some staggering bs yarns spun to farmers about Manuka profits to get feet in the door. 

 

53 minutes ago, Philbee said:

Funny you should say this
I know an East Coast Landholder who has some of the best producing Manuka in the country on lease to a large corporate.

One of his gripes is that the Corporate consistently fails to meet hive number targets and it doesn't appear to be about prudent stocking rates but more to do with an inability to supply ( not Watsons)

I hear you brother ..... when we was a corporate operation the head honcho had signed up so many properties expecting us to pull bee hives out of thin air to fill the contracts.  It was a major growth phase and really disappointing to have to divide up the number of bees into the number of properties and supply everyone with not enough bees to produce the returns they had been promised. It did no good for our Mana  but was a case of spin the yarn, secure the land, and then deal with the fallout, which was a torrent of abuse when the honey cheque came through at the end of the season and the site was lost for the next year.  

But that seems to be the nature of the game .... At times it ws'nt a nice game !

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It is no game - it is a mess and it does no good for any of us.

 

A Comvita guy in land management told me that the Watsons crew would go to land owners contracted to Comvita and tell them their deal was crap and they could have got double from them or others. They would then vanish. It was all bull just to cause trouble. It gives the industry a bad name and raises false expectation.

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I've seen similar, weird behaviour from watsons. The local minion approached one landowner that I know and offered them big $. It's not a large farm and the proposal was to put around 200 hives there for manuka honey production. 

It's a kanuka block,  no manuka, and the verbal promise was for minimum 20-30k return to the farm. The landowner asked me if I'd like to match it and I declined. I told him that the numbers quoted were nonsense and to get any promises in writing but he never did. 

2 years later he hasn't seen a cent. 

 

Thing is, I know that the local watsons minion is aware that this particular block has zero manuka honey potential, but he's still committing the company hives to it. I guess he must get paid per site and maybe he's hoping that head office will accept excuses for the block not performing to expected potential? They've also gone in with big promises to other similar properties with zero manuka potential so I'm not sure what the game is. I could make money off those blocks if I just had one or two medium size apiaries on them and went for low stocking rate /high production beekeeping but with the numbers that watsons chucks on there they must only get a few kg/hive 

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23 hours ago, Merk said:

, I know that the local watsons minion is aware that this particular block has zero manuka honey potential, but he's still committing the company hives to it. I guess he must get paid per site and maybe he's hoping that head office will accept excuses for the block not performing to expected potential? They've also gone in with big promises to other similar properties with zero manuka potential so I'm not sure what the game is.

@Merk do you think they were simply trying to up the sound of their outfit before ripping off ngai tahu? No need for apiaries to be profitable if you're flicking the business on for a massive payday and then you're walking away from the mess you've made: "sure, we've got xxxx new manuka sites up north, they're able to carry xxxx hives. Money in the bank bro"

Edited by tommy dave
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You have to wonder about Ngai Tahu and how they ever thought it was a good idea to pay that much money for a honey business.  

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10 hours ago, tommy dave said:

@Merk do you think they were simply trying to up the sound of their outfit before ripping off ngai tahu? No need for apiaries to be profitable if you're flicking the business on for a massive payday and then you're walking away from the mess you've made: "sure, we've got xxxx new manuka sites up north, they're able to carry xxxx hives. Money in the bank bro"

The devious dealings of business .....  it's been going on for years. Down here a hundred years ago a company was floated to mine diamonds down at Stavely. Diamonds were shown to prospective investors, money was put up to float the company and the Director boarded a ship with the money and the diamonds to get them assayed in Amsterdam. He was never seen again in this hemisphere. History repeats itself in different forms !

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22 hours ago, frazzledfozzle said:

You have to wonder about Ngai Tahu and how they ever thought it was a good idea to pay that much money for a honey business.  

Not that this is an excuse, but it's hard to do due diligence on a bee business. Even something as basic as hive numbers- a highly mobile operation like watsons had, with hives in remote areas/ heli access only..... How do you get an accurate count? 

I was told that a lot of the hives had been counted twice - once in northland then again in taranaki or whatever.  It wasn't clear if the double muster was accidental or not. 

 

I personally think that @tommy dave might be on to something with his theory. No other explanation fits. 

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Due diligent would be hard.  Earn out bonus based on returns achieved would be a smart way up cover yourself in most business acquisitions.  The seller is always in the posiion of power through knowledge in any dealing.

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Ngai Tahu probably did not know what they were really buying and have been caught out big time. Due diligence would have been hard but it looks like they were taken for fools. 

The Watson minions say there is a restructure going on now and there are a lot of job cuts. It looks like a big down sizing excessive is going on. It will be a fire sale next!

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Yes I can imagine it being sold off .

Do they have anyone on board who even knows anything about bees and beekeeping ?

 

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I’m looking for an extractor and pricker Dan!!

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3 hours ago, jamesc said:

I’m looking for an extractor and pricker Dan!!

I'm sure you could ask Dennis Watson for the prick part, I know that they are barcoding/ird tagging all the hives so they know what they have.

Edited by Dennis Crowley
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3 hours ago, Dennis Crowley said:

I'm sure you could ask Dennis Watson for the prick part, I know that they are barcoding/ird tagging all the hives so they know what they have.

So er .... is that a downsized pricker  :$..... but seriously the whole thing is really just a contra transaction on a Treaty Settlement.

Edited by jamesc

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Watsons is the bane of my existence round here so I've always got my ear to the ground for information on what's going on with them locally. 

A couple of years ago- before the ngai tahu buy in was announced- I was shown a map of a property with about a dozen sites for about a thousand hives, all super close together for wintering hives. They only space them out 1 or 200 yards apart (I don't even know why they bother- might as well just chuck 600 on a mega site). 

All of the sites were registered with the management agency and the land owner was paid for the sites (several thousand dollars) but no hives ever arrived. This happened 2 years in a row. 

 

The question in my mind is: as far as head office knew (and by default, any prospective buyers like ngai tahu) were these supposed to be real apiaries with hives on them (ghost hives) or were they listed as vacant sites that the company intended to fill one day? 

 

In light of recent rumours about hive numbers being far lower than ngai tahu thought when they bought it, I'm starting to wonder if I know where some of these ghost hives were lurking 

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I have heard similar stories. I know some of the guys that did the hive count before Ngai Tahu took over and they say thousands were missing. It is hard to tell truth from fiction with the Watsons crew. It all seems like one big scam. 

Crazy thing is I know guys working in the team that build the Watsons hives and up until recently they have been making thousands of boxes each week. Where did they all go? 

There has to be some grand plan going on there that is beyond us simple folks. 

The new CEO is telling anyone that will listen that they have had another terrible season, lost thousands more hives and only got 9kg honey per hive. People in the thick of it reckon they have done much better than that and have lost virtually no hives. What is the agenda? Who is right? Why say you are doing worse than you really are? Who gains from the mess?

The world of Watsons is very strange.

 

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11 hours ago, Merk said:

@Desperate Dan it looks to me like the new owners are keen to downplay any discrepancies between what they thought they were purchasing vs what they actually got. Makes sense, they want to preserve the perceived value of the company for shareholders etc.

 

What if they had 20,000 actual producing hives but have 60k on the books (40k nucs/ghost hives/dead outs)

 

^ this would be very consistent with making up thousands of boxes in time to build up hives before a spring/summer audit - per below.

On 3/19/2018 at 8:53 AM, Desperate Dan said:

Crazy thing is I know guys working in the team that build the Watsons hives and up until recently they have been making thousands of boxes each week.

 

 

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I have no idea. Like @Desperate Dan, I hear conflicting stories and it makes no sense. 

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Wheres the puke emoji? 

Resized_20180321_065408_4046.jpeg

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Weird advert but I'm just a simple beek. 

 

They seem to sell a lot though. That stuff seems to be in every shop you walk into. Even the local pharmacy has a big display.

 

 

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3 minutes ago, Desperate Dan said:

Weird advert but I'm just a simple beek. 

 

They seem to sell a lot though. That stuff seems to be in every shop you walk into. Even the local pharmacy has a big display.

 

 

There can only be one Legend and I thought it was me

 

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8 minutes ago, Philbee said:

and I thought it was me

 

that has to say "and that's me".

you don't "think" you are legend, @Philbee

how about this lesson from the german legend on true legends, eh?

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2 hours ago, Merk said:

Wheres the puke emoji? 

Resized_20180321_065408_4046.jpeg

These ads are everywhere.

I saw one in the front of an NZ Gardener, last time I buy NZ Gardener.

and here’s the puke emoji ?

Edited by Daley
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It is great marketing though ( even if we all hate that!)! The "Legend" is of course the valiant honey bee ( even if we choose to look at it differently......).:13_upside_down:

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