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Andywang

Organic beekeepers required

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If you are trying to control coddling moth using a monitoring program you have to spray between the caterpillar hatching and it entering the Apple  regardless of wind .

 

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I agree with your sentiments re spray drift @BlakeyJ , but I strongly disagree that an organic farmer should dictate the way their neighbours manage their crops or land . I've spent most of my life handing herbicides and pesticides ,so I'm well aware of the issues involved . The onus is on the land owner and applicator to keep the spray inside their boundary , simple as that . The flip side is of course that setting up an organic orchard in the guts of an established conventionally managed area is akin  to building a glasshouse  on the boundary Eden Park , just before a game of 20/20 cricket . There may be a risk of glass breakage if you catch my  drift ! 

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2 hours ago, Jas said:

I agree with your sentiments re spray drift @BlakeyJ , but I strongly disagree that an organic farmer should dictate the way their neighbours manage their crops or land . I've spent most of my life handing herbicides and pesticides ,so I'm well aware of the issues involved . The onus is on the land owner and applicator to keep the spray inside their boundary , simple as that . The flip side is of course that setting up an organic orchard in the guts of an established conventionally managed area is akin  to building a glasshouse  on the boundary Eden Park , just before a game of 20/20 cricket . There may be a risk of glass breakage if you catch my  drift ! 

Ahhh I didn't imply an organic farmer should dictate anything, but you agreed that the conventional farmer should keep his spray drift inside his own property, which is precisely what I said. My comment was that conventional farmers should not just assume that they have the right to contaminate any neighbour with chemicals, regardless of what the neighbour is doing on his land.

I do agree that it would be silly for an organic farmer to set up in the middle of chemical farmers.

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11 hours ago, kaihoka said:

If you are trying to control coddling moth using a monitoring program you have to spray between the caterpillar hatching and it entering the Apple  regardless of wind .

 

you can very effectively manage coddling moth using a wrap around the base of the trunk. The caterpillar hatch in the ground and the caterpillar must travel up the trunk. Catch it there, and job done, no sprays needed. In my opinion, spraying for many things is kind of on the lazy side. A little extra work, and less chemicals to drift anywhere.

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55 minutes ago, BlakeyJ said:

I do agree that it would be silly for an organic farmer to set up in the middle of chemical farmers.

the trouble is they do, then they go around telling everyone that they have to do this and that because they have moved in.

moving in and telling your neighbors what to do, a great way to start off on the wrong foot.

 

growers should keep spray on their land, however when spraying tall trees theres always going to be drift.

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2 minutes ago, tristan said:

the trouble is they do, then they go around telling everyone that they have to do this and that because they have moved in.

moving in and telling your neighbors what to do, a great way to start off on the wrong foot.

 

growers should keep spray on their land, however when spraying tall trees theres always going to be drift.

I know this is getting a little off track, but if a chemical neighbour had any respect for his neighbours, he would only spray when the wind was in the opposite direction, regardless of what the neighbour was dong. While there is a degree that you should be able to do anything you like on your own property, there is also respect for any and all neighbours. There seems to be a whole lot of "don't tell me what to do, if you don't like it, then move" attitude, and that too is not being a decent neighbour. It has to go both ways. Organic production never imposes on a neighbour, but chemical farmers impose big time on everyone around them.

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I have been practising forms of organic horticulture for over 40 years , long before it was fashionable.

I also grew up on an orchard and have worked in the industry.

over the years I have seen a lot of progress toward safer and more environmentally friendly pest control .

As for wrapping each tree with a barrier for coddling mother that may be ok for a small home orchard but I would not stake my financial future on it 

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Just saw this... wondering if anyone wanted to comment on their Facebook post, as to what treatments they are using - organic of chemical, as I seem to have been blocked from commenting.

 

Treatments.JPG.0ac0b5f1f146930ed20e461c6a713f1b.JPG

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Hmmm, interesting. Possibly a slip of the tongue.

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2 hours ago, Alastair said:

Hmmm, interesting. Possibly a slip of the tongue.

haha, "oops, my fingers slipped onto the keyboard and accidentally typed a whole sentence that advertises we are not organic in any way" They clearly don't get it.

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Well, they could say it's an organic treatment, but frankly, I know these guys and don't think they have the nous to do one of the more technical organic treatments, without major complications and losing a lot of hives. It will be the usual synthetic treatment.

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Looks like a little publicity can help a person mend their ways. New name.

 

 

EHS.JPG

Edited by Alastair
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2 hours ago, Alastair said:

Looks like a little publicity can help a person mend their ways. New name.

 

 

EHS.JPG

But the green logo on the side on all product labels still says "100% organic naturally produced" but great that they have changed the name.

Edited by BlakeyJ

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Did see that, but they are moving in the right direction. Let's see if they clean up their site, and what they are telling people verbally.

 

My insider told me that the mite treatment they have just done was bayvarol, a synthetic pyrethroid. So that would be why they now call themselves sustainable beekeepers, the synthetic chemicals will kill the mites and make their hives sustainable. ;)

 

How can I contact you Blakey?

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Hi All,This subject or should I say topic is right up my alley.Now we still have a few certified organic beeks left.Derek Newton,TransAlpine Honey,Bruce Mcusker,Heathstock Apiaries and Reese Adamson Central Otago.These are the only ones Iknow about.I was certified with both Biogro and Asure Quality but discontinued because of pricing and standards.Organic beeks are allowed to feed sugar in emergency situations,All sugar has to be certified.So if I leave my rata on the hives the bees would be dead in the spring as it goes lick a rock and bees have to work hard to get the cystals so they can use them

    Varroa treatments.Certified beeks can use oxalic,formic or thymol oils.No synthetic chemicals allowed.

    Another reason I got out was I could not guarantee my honey was 1080 free.I was exporting certified honey to usa but Biogro did not like A.Q exporting certified honey to the usa as it did not meet the usda standards so the rules were changed on us.All hives had to be 3 km from conventional agriculture.I found 2 sites that met that standard but found out that 1080 had been dropped in the last 3 yrs.

  I will got to face book and ask these guys,Earth Bound Honey Ltd and see what their treatments are.When I find out I will inform you all.

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It's bayvarol this time around for them they are just taking it out of the hives now.

 

Roy why are these organic beekeepers not more publicised? When this topic came up I did some searching for organic beekepers and could only find one, who was very small. It would be good to know who these folks are so they could be recommended when people ask.

 

Re sugar, I would have thought that if organic sugar was used, an organic beekeeper could feed as much as they wanted, being as it's organic?

 

Also re the 1080, surely almost zero if anything at all would end up in a plants nectar?

Edited by Alastair

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Alastair,I have no idea why these beekeepers do not advertise.

  

1080:The drop was performed in winter when the Rata vine is in flower.My bitch was the dust from the spreader would go onto the flower and the bees would take the nectar or pollen back to the hive and the 1080 would be in the product.We do not know the effects of 1080 on bees health wise.Parts /million or billion may still be able to be detected who knows as far as I know no lab has a test for 1080 in honey or pollen.

 

Sugar: only allowed to be used in emergencies.The beekeeper has to explain to the certifier the nature of the emergency.

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1080 is a naturally occurring compound found in quite a few Australian plants so why isn't it regarded as organic like thymol, oxalic and formic all of which are made in a chemical vat just like 1080.

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40 minutes ago, john berry said:

1080 is a naturally occurring compound found in quite a few Australian plants

And tea

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John,The reason the 1080 was not allowed is because it was used by the powers to be as a pesticide and was aerial delivered.Our organic standards are based on European ones due to us being IFOAM accredited to get access to their markets.

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On ‎30‎/‎04‎/‎2018 at 9:28 PM, Bighands said:

  I will got to face book and ask these guys,Earth Bound Honey Ltd and see what their treatments are.When I find out I will inform you all.

 

How did that work out?

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I have just sent them an email and asked loads of questions about their sustainability they are claiming.Will let you know when I get a reply.

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On 10/05/2018 at 4:07 AM, Alastair said:

 

How did that work out?

I asked the people today and they told me they usede synthetic and acids to control varroa.They also feed sugar at times but the worst thing is they use plastic frames both in the brood nest and as honey supers.This  is not sustainable at all so will question them on this tomorrow.

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Well at least they were honest so they get 10 points for that.

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