February 2018 Beekeeping Diary

[john berry 5,636]

Apparent PMS without varoa= dud Queen. These hives happened before varoa but do seem to be more common now even in properly treated hives. A lot supersede successfully but if I find them, I kill them.

[CraBee 1,748]

16 minutes ago, john berry said:

Apparent PMS without varoa= dud Queen. These hives happened before varoa but do seem to be more common now even in properly treated hives. A lot supersede successfully but if I find them, I kill them.

 

Yes 100% agree I see this from time to time.

[Philbee 4,675]

6 hours ago, CraBee said:

The problem is the Queen.

Please explain this.

As it happens the Queen is on her way out and Ive removed all the Brood except the frame with the cells on
Ill probably scrap that one also and put a caged Queen in but Im interested to hear why you blame the Queen

It takes me back to a time when we had a vigorous debate here on the idea that PMS was a Queen issue.

[Kiwi Bee 589]

No @yesbutit is a tall tree , tones of branches an even more flowers(maybe some sort of eucalyptus). It always blooms in February, however this year is SEASON/GAME OVER. One small step from winter. Time for treatment.

I hope is not raining tomorrow till I harvest 2 boxes of honey. Waitangi Day treatment in.

[Philbee 4,675]

Ive now read back a few posts and see that this idea is shared.

But still, it is still a curiosity to me how a viral infection can be related to the Queen

Is the Queen the carrier?? or is she just breeding weak Bees

Edited February 3, 2018 by Philbee

[CraBee 1,748]

15 minutes ago, Philbee said:

Please explain this.

As it happens the Queen is on her way out and Ive removed all the Brood except the frame with the cells on
Ill probably scrap that one also and put a caged Queen in but Im interested to hear why you blame the Queen

It takes me back to a time when we had a vigorous debate here on the idea that PMS was a Queen issue.

 

I've come across hives / mating nucs from time to time and thought - looks like AFB - or looks like PMS - but once tests are done it is clear

it is neither.  It is not residual viruses from Varroa, that just doesn't fit.

 

There will often be a bit of sacbrood, really patchy brood (but not sunken or darkened), holes in cappings, even chewed down larvae, poor Queen laying (ie either more than one egg per cell, or egg on cell wall, or she's not laying a good pattern ie gaps between where she is laying eggs or mixed ages of larvae.  It seems that sometimes once the Queen goes bad, so does the brood.    Once the Queen gets the chop the problem goes. 

 

I have one of these Queen's going at the moment in a mating nuc I came across a few days ago out the back, I'll get a few photo's tomorrow if the rain stops :-)

 

Note:  It is not the Queen picking up viruses once she has emerged (as this has occurred in mating nucs), but perhaps it is something she picks up as a developing Queen in a cell before emerging from the Queen / hive she originates from?  Just an idea.

 

 

 

 

Edited February 3, 2018 by CraBee

[Philbee 4,675]

1 minute ago, CraBee said:

 

I've come across hives / mating nucs from time to time and thought - looks like AFB - or looks like PMS - but once tests are done it is clear

it is neither.  It is not residual viruses from Varroa, that just doesn't fit.

 

There will often be a bit of sacbrood, really patchy brood (but not sunken or darkened), holes in cappings, even chewed down larvae poor Queen laying (ie either more than one egg per cell, or egg on cell wall, or she's not laying a good pattern ie gaps between where she is laying eggs or mixed ages of larvae.  It seems that sometimes once the Queen goes bad, so does the brood.    Once the Queen gets the chop the problem goes. 

 

I have one of these Queen's going at the moment in a mating nuc I came across a few days ago out the back, I'll get a few photo's tomorrow if the rain stops :-)

 

 

 

 

 

 

It is interesting that the Hive dont want this Queen
Its as if they Know

Ive left the uncapped Brood in but tomorrow or Monday I will do what Ive always wanted to do to a late summer hive and that is remove all the Brood which will create a brood Break then put a Mated Queen in

[Kiwi Bee 589]

@Philbee, what if you just unite it with a good hive?

 

I had a nuc with a new queen. Very little brood here and there(not a nice pattern) and a small patch of brood with multiple eggs. I eliminated her right away and I united the nuc with another hive(newspaper). Will see next week how the unification went.

The season is over and I think it is no time to experiment. Nucs/hives(all new queens) with not satisfactory/good brood pattern will have the queen eliminated, then unification and treatment and food to be ready for winter.

[Philbee 4,675]

46 minutes ago, Kiwi Bee said:

@Philbee, what if you just unite it with a good hive?

 

I had a nuc with a new queen. Very little brood here and there(not a nice pattern) and a small patch of brood with multiple eggs. I eliminated her right away and I united the nuc with another hive(newspaper). Will see next week how the unification went.

The season is over and I think it is no time to experiment. Nucs/hives(all new queens) with not satisfactory/good brood pattern will have the queen eliminated, then unification and treatment and food to be ready for winter.

It is a good Hive and my Queen yard is probably holding 1000kg of Honey
Theres  seven boxes stacked in my grafting room alone
No point uniting it, just throw a Queen in and pop a cell in the mating nuc to replace it.

Ive got hives that have a box of fresh clover Nectar on

It aint over till its over, and it aint over here

Experimenting with a few Hives can be well worth the loss of a few

[dansar 5,524]

1 hour ago, Philbee said:

It is a good Hive and my Queen yard is probably holding 1000kg of Honey
Theres  seven boxes stacked in my grafting room alone
No point uniting it, just throw a Queen in and pop a cell in the mating nuc to replace it.

Ive got hives that have a box of fresh clover Nectar on

It aint over till its over, and it aint over here

Experimenting with a few Hives can be well worth the loss of a few

My Bees are in robbing mode already and I am starting to feed nucleus colonies. Priced up sugar the other day,Natural Sugar is a few cents over $1/kg incl gst for white sugar. Looking to get 1000kg along with pollen sub very soon. Pollen dearth and no flow here.

[john berry 5,636]

I have always blamed those PMS type hives on poorly mated Queen's but it could be any number of causes including inbreeding, a queen raised from to old a grub, an unfortunate genetic mutation or even a heavily virused Queen. An academically interesting question but whatever the reason the cure is the same. Not sure why you would want a brood break before introducing a new Queen. The best time to introduce either a cell or a new Queen is immediately after removing the old one. The longer a hive is queenless the less likely they are to accept a new Queen.

[Daley 4,351]

23 hours ago, Daniel Benefield said:

It is, and it tastes lovely too. I'm not sure what it is exactly though. It's the first year I have had this site as well as another 1 about 2km away. Hives at both sites brought in a box or 2 each of this.

My guess would be lotus

[Philbee 4,675]

33 minutes ago, john berry said:

I have always blamed those PMS type hives on poorly mated Queen's but it could be any number of causes including inbreeding, a queen raised from to old a grub, an unfortunate genetic mutation or even a heavily virused Queen. An academically interesting question but whatever the reason the cure is the same. Not sure why you would want a brood break before introducing a new Queen. The best time to introduce either a cell or a new Queen is immediately after removing the old one. The longer a hive is queenless the less likely they are to accept a new Queen.

 

In this case it is an opportunity to see how a late summer hive can cope with a brood break

The brood break would just be the result of getting rid of all the Brood and whatever disease might be in the Brood that is causing it to die off.

My opinion is that it is not satisfactory to simply blame this die off on the Queen because there is so much apparently good brood that isnt affected

To me it is far more likely that the Sacbrood type symptoms are pathogen related
 

It goes back to an idea I had where to clean the hive out of Varroa  in late summer I could cause a Brood break by removing Brood  and requeen at the same time.
However two things have happened to this season that have changed things slightly

There is very little Varroa around and the Koromiko started flowering very early so may finish very early

This is usually a good late forage

Having said this, a trial with one or two hives is neither here nor there considering what could be learned from the experiece

Edited February 3, 2018 by Philbee

[Philbee 4,675]

17 minutes ago, Philbee said:

Queen's but it could be any number of causes including inbreeding, a queen raised from to old a grub, an unfortunate genetic mutation or even a heavily virused Queen.

Ive seen all these

These Queens dont make it out of the mating nucs as their compromised state ruins the Nuc
The Hive in Question here was big and strong, overflowing with Bees

[kaihoka 2,975]

2 hours ago, Daley said:

My guess would be lotus

Yes of course you are right , lotus .

I have lots . 

But in one of the frames I samples today when I was OA gassing there was something bitter and nasty.

There is probably not much but it is mixed in with the nice lotus .

It will be frame by frame extraction , it's the sort of taste that would taint a whole batch of honey .

Do commercials ever have to consider these things. 

Or do they just hope that by blending everything it will be ok .

[jamesc 4,900]

8 hours ago, john berry said:

I have always blamed those PMS type hives on poorly mated Queen's but it could be any number of causes including inbreeding, a queen raised from to old a grub, an unfortunate genetic mutation or even a heavily virused Queen. An academically interesting question but whatever the reason the cure is the same. Not sure why you would want a brood break before introducing a new Queen. The best time to introduce either a cell or a new Queen is immediately after removing the old one. The longer a hive is queenless the less likely they are to accept a new Queen.

Hmmm .... when introducing queens we have most success when we wait a day. With cells they get wrapped in masking tape to protect from chewing out and go straight in.

[frazzledfozzle 7,483]

2 hours ago, jamesc said:

Hmmm .... when introducing queens we have most success when we wait a day. With cells they get wrapped in masking tape to protect from chewing out and go straight in.

 

We have tried both waiting a day and putting the cells in at the same time the queen is caged.

we haven’t noticed any difference so put the cell in ( unprotected) at the same time the queen is taken.  One less trip out to a yard if you do it at the same time.

[Philbee 4,675]

1 hour ago, frazzledfozzle said:

 

We have tried both waiting a day and putting the cells in at the same time the queen is caged.

we haven’t noticed any difference so put the cell in ( unprotected) at the same time the queen is taken.  One less trip out to a yard if you do it at the same time.

I never put cells in the same day as the Queen is removed, mainly because I dont have time to do both jobs on the same day
 

[frazzledfozzle 7,483]

8 minutes ago, Philbee said:

I never put cells in the same day as the Queen is removed, mainly because I dont have time to do both jobs on the same day
 

 

Lol really !

[Sailabee 1,102]

The lady has the advantage of being able to multi-task perhaps?

[yesbut 6,230]

7 hours ago, Sailabee said:

The lady has the advantage of being able to multi-task perhaps?

(No no no no yesbut , don't say anything)

[dansar 5,524]

I have 11 too many hives in my back yard. It was no hives all through winter and then swarms started turning up in spring ...and so it goes. They were docile nucs after splitting them a few months back and a pleasure to be in the back garden with. Yesterday and even moreso early this evening they have turned in to aggressive robbing monsters. Everyone is plundering each other. I have had this many hives at home before but have never had robbing on this scale. Time to move them out to a far off apiary site to be angry by themselves.

[kaihoka 2,975]

Do bees still turn into angry robbing monsters if they have lots of honey on their hive .

Or does that behavior really start once the honey has been taken off and the flow dries up .?

[Trevor Gillbanks 6,846]

34 minutes ago, kaihoka said:

Do bees still turn into angry robbing monsters if they have lots of honey on their hive .

Or does that behavior really start once the honey has been taken off and the flow dries up .?

Nothing to do with how much honey is on the hive.  It is all about the flow.

When the flow stop, you have all those foraging bees with nothing to do, so they go and get nectar where ever they can.  Usually the weakest hive next door.

[tommy dave 1,184]

11 hours ago, Trevor Gillbanks said:

Nothing to do with how much honey is on the hive.  It is all about the flow.

When the flow stop, you have all those foraging bees with nothing to do, so they go and get nectar where ever they can.  Usually the weakest hive next door.

a near neighbour rang me a week or so back, he saw me loading bee gear into my car before xmas and pulled over for a yarn as he has bees etc. Nice guy. Anyway, he called as his hives were being robbed and wondered if it was my hives doing it. I have no idea if it's my bees obviously (likely though), but i went up and gave him those mouse guard metal entrance reducers to put on his hives. Sounds like some honey had been spilled and all the bees in the neighbourhood had turned up. I gave him a jar of honey too, when he said thanks all i could think is that it was probably his bees that had collected it in the first place...

 

i loved the idea of saying "yes, it's my bees, i'll give them a stern talking to!"

Edited February 5, 2018 by tommy dave