Jump to content

Understanding the risks associated with tutin 2017


Recommended Posts

On 12/12/2017 at 11:06 AM, Dennis Crowley said:

Hi Rob, as far as I know there is no direct research into the passionvine hopper issue, but there has been bits and pieces.

The GWA research was done as a lot of other industries could see how this could/would effect them and felt it bad enough so they put their hands in their pockets and paid for the work to be done. Barry Foster from Gisborne had a big hand in working with the scion research to do the work. He struggles to get money from the beekeeping industry to pay towards research, even though we all put our hand up when asked if we should do research, when asked to put those hands in your pocket and help pay for the research, the room goes quite.

It has always been the issue with this industry.

Barry showed me a list of all the research involving bees/bees related being done in NZ either through universities, privately or institutions and it was a lot. An very little was funded by beekeepers, and to be fare some of the research would not be for us as the end user.

There is a wasp in Australia that would eat the passion vine hopper, that we know. Now getting that wasp into NZ and making sure that it wont affect anything else is the $$$$$ question. There would be some other industry groups that would be interested in seeing the demise of the P-hopper but it may not be that high on their lists, especially when you can spray a chemical to deal with a localised problem. We as beeks want a nationwide eradication and that is were the rubber meets the road as to who is going to pay.

As far as the tutin plant goes, they ant going anywhere, so as beeks learn to manage your business and stop blaming the plant for your mismanagement, they were here first, we are the

interlopers. Its like buying a cheap house by the airport and then complaining about all the planes.

 

Hi Dennis, thanks for the post. Any introduction of a new insect that is currently not in NZ, would require a full biosecurity assessment of the potential risks to ensure that we are not introducing any new diseases into the country. Also, although eradication may seem like the easiest solution more work would need to be done on finding out if the eradication of passion vine hoppers would have any negative impacts on other plants or the food chain.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 99
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

Okay gents please settle down. At the risk of being shot down I'm going to defend the original post.    Tutin is a serious risk. It deserves  to be pushed, even if only for the benefit of ne

For those of you asking if ApiNZ is involved in any work on the management/eradication of scolypopa we have raised this with the Science and Research Focus Group which will be meeting earlier than usu

Hi Rob, as far as I know there is no direct research into the passionvine hopper issue, but there has been bits and pieces. The GWA research was done as a lot of other industries could see how th

Posted Images

5 hours ago, ApiNZ_tutin said:

 

Hi Dennis, thanks for the post. Any introduction of a new insect that is currently not in NZ, would require a full biosecurity assessment of the potential risks to ensure that we are not introducing any new diseases into the country. Also, although eradication may seem like the easiest solution more work would need to be done on finding out if the eradication of passion vine hoppers would have any negative impacts on other plants or the food chain.

That is very true so are you or anybody else conducting a pest management assessment and/or  intending to make a cost benefit analysis of the rising impact of tutin in honey due to climate change? Where would it sit on the list of priorities?

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, BJC said:

the rising impact of tutin in honey due to climate change? Where would it sit on the list of priorities?

If by impact you mean prominence of the potential issue in people's minds I agree it is rising, but it's nothing to do with climate change. It's become govt policy to raise the awareness . I'd be very surprised if money appears out of somewhere for hopper management/control because it's such a piddling little issue in the scheme of things. Sure tutin has killed people but actually it's very easily and cheaply kept below dangerous levels in food. LIike everything else all it takes is basic intelligence and compliance. Road safety is much more of a worry.  IMO.

Edited by yesbut
  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, yesbut said:

If by impact you mean prominence of the potential issue in people's minds I agree it is rising, but it's nothing to do with climate change. It's become govt policy to raise the awareness . I'd be very surprised if money appears out of somewhere for hopper management/control because it's such a piddling little issue in the scheme of things. Sure tutin has killed people but actually it's very easily and cheaply kept below dangerous levels in food. LIike everything else all it takes is basic intelligence and compliance. Road safety is much more of a worry.  IMO.

Do you have a lot of tutu around your place ?

Link to post
Share on other sites

Climate change will probably have effects on the tutin content of honey but it is impossible to accurately say what they will be. However a warmer climate may mean scollypoppa distribution changes below the Marlborough Nelson cut off, more droughts are an obvious worry and changes to nectar flow seasons could exacerbate the problem.

  • Like 1
  • Agree 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Apihappy said:

Climate change will probably have effects on the tutin content of honey but it is impossible to accurately say what they will be. However a warmer climate may mean scollypoppa distribution changes below the Marlborough Nelson cut off, more droughts are an obvious worry and changes to nectar flow seasons could exacerbate the problem.

wheres sylvan reserve, in tutu country ?

Link to post
Share on other sites

For those of you asking if ApiNZ is involved in any work on the management/eradication of scolypopa we have raised this with the Science and Research Focus Group which will be meeting earlier than usual in the new year. We are aware that the hot/dry weather this season is making the issue more urgent in certain parts of the country.

  • Thanks 2
  • Good Info 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, Karin Kos said:

For those of you asking if ApiNZ is involved in any work on the management/eradication of scolypopa we have raised this with the Science and Research Focus Group which will be meeting earlier than usual in the new year. We are aware that the hot/dry weather this season is making the issue more urgent in certain parts of the country.

Further to this response from Apiculture NZ, MPI is currently not conducting any research into passion vine hoppers itself. At this stage the focus is on providing beekeepers options for keeping tutin at safe levels in our country's honey such as harvesting outside the high risk period (Jan – April) or having honey tested. It will be interesting to see what the Science and Research Group at ApiNZ make of this discussion in the New Year. Watch this space.

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 12/14/2017 at 4:45 PM, Anakei said:

Given that the passion vine hopper seems to be active earlier this year, is it till safe to take honey before 31 December without testing? 

 

Hi Anakei

 

The number of insects can fluctuate with seasonal variation, so if you are seeing more scolypopa nymphs or adults in the forage areas for your bees, MPI strongly recommends you test your honey to check for the presence of tutin.

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 12/14/2017 at 6:10 PM, cBank said:

 

Does anyone known if it’s adult and nymph stage that are the problem? Or just adult? Given when the problem happens I’m guessing adult only, but it would be nice to know.

 

Both nymphs and adults produce honeydew in quantities sufficient enough for bees to gather. You can find more information about passion vine hoppers from section 2.4 (page 6) of the compliance guide to tutin in honey: http://mpi.govt.nz/dmsdocument/20489-compliance-guide-to-the-food-standard-tutin-in-honey-2016

  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
On 12/12/2017 at 5:05 PM, frazzledfozzle said:

 

When you say “keep consumers safe” That’s a bit of an over exaggeration of any harm that might occur.

 

This is from  food standards 

https://www.foodstandards.gov.au/code/proposals/Documents/P1029-Tutin-AppRSD1-RiskAssessment.docx

 

 

I think it was 2 people who were part of the testing that got a headache at the previous level of 2mg/kg ...hang I can get a headache after eating honey with no Tutin content at all. 

If you have to eat 0.9 g of honey per Kg of body weight to actually get that headache then you deserve to get a guts ache to go with it.

 

Hi Frazzled Fozzle

 

Interesting point you raise. I hope the following helps explain how the levels are set:

 

The requirements in the Food Standards Code are science-based (this includes a detailed risk assessment) and are set at levels well below anything that would cause a food safety risk. This is to ensure that the food safety risks to consumers are very low.

 

The light-headedness and headaches reported in the pharmacokinetic study as adverse effects correlated with the time that tutin concentrations peaked in the blood of the volunteers giving reasonable confidence that tutin was the cause, and certainly not allowing the researchers to rule out this as being a sign of toxicity from tutin. This study was peer reviewed and the findings were not questioned.

 

A precautionary approach has to be taken in ensuring food for sale is not going to result in any adverse effects to consumers, reporting in the Adult and Child National nutrition surveys indicates people do eat large amounts of honey, including children. As a result the calculation is protective to ensure that the honey available for retail is not going to cause adverse health effects for all consumers.

 

A full scientific risk assessment on the regulatory tutin limit and the relevant consultation documents are on the Food Standards website as you have noted. See the link below.

 

P1029 Maximum level for tutin in honey:  http://www.foodstandards.gov.au/code/proposals/Pages/P1029-Maximun-Level-for-Tutin-in-Honey.aspx

 

For those of you interested, this link for general information on FSANZ’s risk analysis process (risk assessment, management and communication) might also be useful: http://www.foodstandards.gov.au/publications/riskanalysisfoodregulation/Pages/default.aspx

 

Finally, If you have any queries about Food Standards, you can contact the Food Standards General enquiries line directly: http://www.foodstandards.govt.nz/Pages/general-enquiries.aspx

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

It explains how the levels are set but it doesn’t explain why the level was reduced so far below the previous level which itself only caused a slight headache and light headedness for two people who had to consume a large quantity of honey to get that effect.

How many people get a headache or lightheadness from eating too much chocolate or coffee ?

Edited by frazzledfozzle
  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, frazzledfozzle said:

It explains how the levels are set but it doesn’t explain why the level was reduced so far below the previous level which itself only caused a slight headache and light headedness for two people who had to consume a large quantity of honey to get that effect.

How many people get a headache or lightheadness from eating too much chocolate or coffee ?

From my understanding is that the previous levels were set with not to much science behind them, when a bit more science was done it was found that the previous levels actually started to increase with the honey sitting on a shelve/in a drum etc so was lowered to take the increase into consideration. Or at least something along these lines. We as beekeepers deal with a live product that changes itself over time and we keep getting pissed when changes are made to what we used to do, but thats the job/hobby/calling/anointing

 we have chosen.

Edited by Dennis Crowley
Link to post
Share on other sites
On 12/20/2017 at 7:29 PM, frazzledfozzle said:

It explains how the levels are set but it doesn’t explain why the level was reduced so far below the previous level which itself only caused a slight headache and light headedness for two people who had to consume a large quantity of honey to get that effect.

How many people get a headache or lightheadness from eating too much chocolate or coffee ?

 

The pharmacokinetic study showed that it is likely that adverse effects may be experienced by some people after consuming honey containing tutin at the previous maximum level of 2mg/kg. Whilst the effects seen in the study were mild light headedness and headaches, there is considerable uncertainty in extrapolating the finding from a small scale study to an entire population. Considering that a third of the test population in the small scale study were affected, it is most likely that more sensitive individuals would be present in the populations and would experience more severe effects if they were consumers of honey which contained tutin at 2mg/kg. In order to protect all consumers from minor adverse effects such as those reported in the study, a reduction in the maximum levels by a factor of 3, resulted in a revised maximum level of 0.7mg/kg for extracted and blended honey.

 

To find out more information about this you can read the risk assessment conducted for maximum level for tutin in honey: http://www.foodstandards.govt.nz/code/proposals/Documents/P1029-Tutin-AppRSD1-RiskAssessment.pdf

Link to post
Share on other sites

As noted by several of you, vine hopper activity has been early and high this year as a  result of the warmer weather. We know that low levels of tutin (less than 0.1mg/kg) have been found in honey harvested in November and December in Northland in an MPI survey undertaken in 2008. It is also possible that low levels could also occur in other warm parts of the country in honey harvested before 1 January. It is unclear whether these low levels are as a result of early vine hopper activity or bees shifting contaminated late season honey up into honey supers as they make room for brood in the bottom boxes in the spring.
 
For that reason we are asking you to be extra vigilant now, particularly if you are in the Coromandel, Eastern Bay of Plenty and Marlborough regions. MPI advises that if beekeepers are in any doubt about whether their honey may contain tutin, they should thoroughly homogenise and have it tested.

 

This is our final post for 2017. We will be back again from January the 8th to answer more of your questions. If you have an urgent matter during this time regarding tutin we ask that you contact MPI directly on 0800 008333.

 

Wishing you a Merry Christmas.

  • Thanks 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
31 minutes ago, ApiNZ_tutin said:

Considering that a third of the test population in the small scale study were affected, 

 

“Small scale study” is a bit of an understatement.

6 individuals 2 complaining of slight head ache and light headedness.

No placebo given to any participants?

i know of several people that would get light headed and have a headache at the thought of ingesting tutin toxin whether they had it or not.

 

im surprised such a drastic and expensive change was made off the back of such a “small” study.

  • Like 1
  • Agree 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
On 12/22/2017 at 2:16 PM, ApiNZ_tutin said:

As noted by several of you, vine hopper activity has been early and high this year as a  result of the warmer weather. We know that low levels of tutin (less than 0.1mg/kg) have been found in honey harvested in November and December in Northland in an MPI survey undertaken in 2008. It is also possible that low levels could also occur in other warm parts of the country in honey harvested before 1 January. It is unclear whether these low levels are as a result of early vine hopper activity or bees shifting contaminated late season honey up into honey supers as they make room for brood in the bottom boxes in the spring.
 
For that reason we are asking you to be extra vigilant now, particularly if you are in the Coromandel, Eastern Bay of Plenty and Marlborough regions. MPI advises that if beekeepers are in any doubt about whether their honey may contain tutin, they should thoroughly homogenise and have it tested.

Interesting that we continue to receive the warnings, I am looking forward to the feedback from the APINZ on their view of the pest management strategy

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 3 weeks later...

Happy New Year for 2018.

Honey harvests will be well underway for many of you. A reminder that all honey harvested from January 1 onwards needs to be tested for tutin unless

a.       You have demonstrated and recorded the absence of tutu bushes in the forage zone (option 3 in the compliance guide)

b.      You are harvesting below 42 degrees South, being a geographical line between Westport and Cape Campbell (option 4 in the guide)

c.       You have three consecutive years of test date showing levels in your honey to be below 0.035 mg tutin per kg for extracted honey and 0.01 mg tutin per kg for comb honey, confirmed thereafter every ten years (option 5 in the guide)

 

If in doubt, test.

 

  • Like 1
  • Good Info 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 2 weeks later...

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...