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Buying queens vs pauper split


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 Am i likely to get significant gains if i buy a queen vs a pauper split. I understand the down sides of pauper split queens but is there really big gains to be made. A lot of what ive read and watched puts big emphasis on diversity of drones she mates with rather than her genetics specifically. Hypothetically if she isnt much cop i wont want to breed from her but if shes a well performing queen in second year im happy to have her off spring. Also could you take out older queen cells to get better chance of queen fed more jelly

Edited by Rob Stockley
Fixed spelling of pauper
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Like I said , I once travelled to Wellington to mate with a virgin, but she was gone. Drones are lot more persistant and don't have to pay for the ferry.

Agree with @Rob Stockley pauper splits are fine for hobbyist beekeepers . 

Unless you are buying a queen with pedigree then the only gain is in timing. The colony will get around four week's head start with a mated queen. Whether that's important depends on your plans for th

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Yes walk away spilts a emergency queens if you cross the best breed dog over a mut you still get half a mut. my view and experience of doing so before grsfting. In saying that only buy a queen of someone that you trust there's some turkeys out there that would not know s good queen from bad. If money's the driver why not get in cells you know they are grafted you can see the cell size and they are crossed with drones from your area. 

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21 minutes ago, northernbee said:

 Am i likely to get significant gains if i buy a queen vs a pauper split.

Unless you are buying a queen with pedigree then the only gain is in timing. The colony will get around four week's head start with a mated queen. Whether that's important depends on your plans for that colony. 

21 minutes ago, northernbee said:

Also could you take out older queen cells to get better chance of queen fed more jelly

Yes, indeed. Egg hatches day three and capped day nine. Ideal  grubs are 24-48 hrs old. A careful check on day five or six after being made queenless and those grubs will be in the process of being capped. Any that are already capped may be older grubs and lesser queens. Timing is everything. 

 

Finally raising your own queens, by any method, is a skill that every beekeeper should embrace. Its hugely satisfying and incredibly useful. 

Edited by Rob Stockley
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43 minutes ago, northernbee said:

my other thought is with feral hives getting cleaned out by disease, the drones available naturally should be consistently better genetics

The survivors do so because they are protected from disease by beekeepers, how does this improve the genetics ?

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Well say for instance theres 100 hives, theoretically that might be 95 people who in some way are breeding or replacing queens or removing undesirable ones, so majority or drones out and about should be getting better each year. 

Wind back the clock 5-10 years when feral hives survived the queens in those were not chosen or likely bred and selected according to performance. My logic is those queens are no longer in circulation either due to disease pr poor performance. 

Not to say some poor queens arent kept domestically either but more likely to fail

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I have to agree with @yesbut 

im not sure that many beekeepers are too worried about what type of queen they have as long as she is laying eggs and there’s enough bees to produce a honey crop.

how many times do we hear beekeepers saying they want to keep their nasty hive because it did more honey than the rest.

 The reason it did more honey could be many and varied but they believe it’s because it’s aggressive go figure.

 

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, @northernbeen try the pauper splits mate,iv increased my numbers through this method and have some OK queens.

Timing,in my opinion,is the biggest factor in producing a half decent queen.The longer into the season you can.leave ur hive to split the better chance of a decent mating.

Iv done them over the last 2 seasons and found the earlier splits can end up as working layers/drone layers .Here's some pics of my latest splits this season.

IMG_20171103_131615.thumb.jpg.0ef77704d28fa744a38e751a15637567.jpg

IMG_20171103_131025.thumb.jpg.6a5c2104b14b459abb167be0feec264f.jpg

IMG_20171025_135345.thumb.jpg.2fc31a877fb2e28549271c9062567164.jpg

IMG_20171021_130935.thumb.jpg.307aa74e25c8cdc036e90bd81cfd15e3.jpg

 

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44 minutes ago, northernbee said:

Slight side step but would a virgin fit through an excluder.

Putting queen cells above old queen while blending 2 hives 

 

Tiny virgins do (experience of finding one above an excluder. But typically, no they wouldn’t fit. It is her thorax that won’t fit and it’s only the abdomen that enlarges after mating. 

 

Should work. Even better if you seperate them with a honey super. Cut a notch in the wood of the QX so she can get out to mate. 

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1 hour ago, northernbee said:

Kiahoki have the same thing here with lack of drones early on while 5km over hill drones everywhere 

It's not so much the lack of drones its the persistent Gale force winds , I always have plenty of drones.

I wonder why your side of the hill has none .

On the other side of Golden bay they are very sheltered so lots of bee keepers have permanent sites.

I did have a queen mate here this spring so I know it  is possible.

We have had a lot more Easterlies than normal 

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On 15/11/2017 at 11:48 AM, kaihoka said:

i think it depends entirely on your location in nz how sucessfull your mating will be.

@Phil46 you do not give your location.

trying to mate here in spring will give me drone layers and poor matings but taking my queens 50klms away gives me great matings even in early spring

Yes I agree,location is another big factor to take into  account.

My location is a nice ,warm spot in the EBOP surrounded by lots of hives,both new and old.

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