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Rob Stockley

Judging the origin of swarms - yer right!

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4 hours ago, cBank said:

 

2 new amateurs in my street and 4 swarms I know of - all from the commercials!

Would they be commercial amateurs or amateur commercials? 

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8 minutes ago, Rob Stockley said:

Would they be commercial amateurs or amateur commercials? 

Good question and difficult for a beginner to tell! However the 2 commercials are in different locations to the 2 hobbiests, and its the commercials that have swarmed. One must have been a hell of a swarm as it was a big hive and I’m disappointed to have missed it.

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Just now, cBank said:

and its the commercials that have swarmed.

how do you know?

swarms can fly from a long way away.

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You can tell refugees/swarms from a commercial yard by all the black eyes, band-aided wings, crutches, and dropped Tramadol  tabs

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5 minutes ago, tristan said:

how do you know?

swarms can fly from a long way away.

 

2 were in hives I rent and I opened them and looked - saw the swarm cells that had hatched and those torn open. I  called the company and their beekeeper came out and confirmed that they had swarmed. 

2 were in hives that a company put in a neighbours garden and one of them swarmed twice - both times while he was at home and saw it happen.

There was another swarm nearby too that was moderate size and I’m unsure where it came from. 

Edited by cBank

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56 minutes ago, cBank said:

 

2 were in hives I rent and I opened them and looked - saw the swarm cells that had hatched and those torn open. I  called the company and their beekeeper came out and confirmed that they had swarmed. 

2 were in hives that a company put in a neighbours garden and one of them swarmed twice - both times while he was at home and saw it happen.

There was another swarm nearby too that was moderate size and I’m unsure where it came from. 

gee thats a bit slack of them.

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5 hours ago, kaihoka said:

all the new amateur urban bee keepers are just a gift to you guys.  :14_relaxed:

All the new amateur urban beekeepers are only as good as the help they receive from experienced beekeepers... although in saying that, my first 4 frame nuc swarmed after 5 weeks of being put into a 10 frame box, and had been checked every 10 days, swarm cells were all being removed - but just 1 cell got missed... so not the fault of the new amateur urban bee keeper, but a hidden cell by a colony that had plenty of space, but hadn't drawn enough new comb...

I bet far more swarms are from commercial hives, where the focus is on money rather than the bees, and what is happening in each hive.

Please, us amateurs need guidance, and not being made fun of...

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i think there is a lot of commercial beeks with far to many hives than they have staff to work on them.

one of the beeks i know puts it as "if it swarms you might as well throw it away cause your not going to get any income from it".

theres also a huge amount of clueless semi-commercials out there :(

 

amateurs/beginners, listening and accepting help is an issue. far to many have their mind made up from the start and only want to do what they are interested in rather than beekeeping.

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43 minutes ago, tristan said:

amateurs/beginners, listening and accepting help is an issue. far to many have their mind made up from the start and only want to do what they are interested in rather than beekeeping.

I have been 'caught' with this, kind of, but it was not a case of having made up my mind already, it was a case I was trying to explain what I currently had heard, been told, watched or witnessed, and was told I wasn't listening. I was actually listening, but was getting conflicting information, and was trying to make sense of it. Being a beginner, the learning curve is very steep, but remember that it is not a case of taking everything everyone says as the only way to do it. Everyone has to evaluate what they are hearing from many sources, and work out which of those will work for their apiary, and individual hives at that. 

I have had some harsh comments directed at me, and it is very offputting, and sorry but that should not be acceptable by anyone's standards.

I have 3 hives, and they all are very different in the way they behave, and the layout and timing of what is going on in them. So to be told I am not listening, or am just an amateur, when I am simply trying to work out which of 10 answers I can successfully apply to hive 1, when that method would probably destroy hive 2, is not fair at all. 
Add to that trying to explain what is happening, and trying to use the correct terms etc, takes time, as everyone knows only too well. Everyone on here was once starting with their first hive, and trying to make them work in a hobby that doesn't have a single standard protocol.

@tristan I want to keep a few hives as a hobby in my backyard, which to me is hobby 'beekeeping', as opposed to commercial 'beekeeping', or even having a hive in my backyard with no idea what to do 'beekeeping'. It is all 'beekeeping' and will never bee the same 'beekeeping' that you have going on, or M4tt or Grant, or anyone else. So please, your comment "rather than beekeeping', is precisely the kind of comment that you, as an experienced beekeeper, should not be throwing around at us newbees... It just makes you sound like you know best, and anyone without your experience is just a deaf amateur. I have to call you out on that. Please, with all due respect, and knowing that you do have significant experience and knowledge, please drop the condescending attitude towards those just starting out. I know you know heaps. I don't, OK, which is why I am here in this forum.

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welcome to the world of beekeeping! There's never one answer because every hive is different. You kinda have to always expect the unexpected. It's nice to get two similar hives in a row when working an apiary of anything from 12 to 40, but it doesn't happen often. You have to assess hive for what it is, think about how you can help, or decide it's okay without your help. Then move on.

 

As as a new mother almost 30 years ago, I got soooo much advise about how to be a parent. It's the ability to sift the information that's important. What works for you, what doesn't. 

 

Theres a huge difference between hobby and commercial, we are trying to make a living. That doesn't mean (in our case anyway) that bee health is not a priority. Healthy happy hives produce honey. Bee health is always a priority for us. Everything else is a bonus. What's not to like about beeing answerable to yourselves!

 

We all started somewhere. Take what you need, for your hives and yourself, then move on. 

 

Ive learnt more here than I ever expected, and pick up a new snippet most days. Mind you I've also developed a thick skin over the years.

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5 minutes ago, Bron said:

welcome to the world of beekeeping! There's never one answer because every hive is different. You kinda have to always expect the unexpected. It's nice to get two similar hives in a row when working an apiary of anything from 12 to 40, but it doesn't happen often. You have to assess hive for what it is, think about how you can help, or decide it's okay without your help. Then move on.

 

As as a new mother almost 30 years ago, I got soooo much advise about how to be a parent. It's the ability to sift the information that's important. What works for you, what doesn't. 

 

Theres a huge difference between hobby and commercial, we are trying to make a living. That doesn't mean (in our case anyway) that bee health is not a priority. Healthy happy hives produce honey. Bee health is always a priority for us. Everything else is a bonus. What's not to like about beeing answerable to yourselves!

 

We all started somewhere. Take what you need, for your hives and yourself, then move on. 

 

Ive learnt more here than I ever expected, and pick up a new snippet most days. Mind you I've also developed a thick skin over the years.

And a sense of humour :14_relaxed:

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2 minutes ago, Bron said:

Ive learnt more here than I ever expected, and pick up a new snippet most days. Mind you I've also developed a thick skin over the years.

I too have learnt a lot. It is just when someone makes a negative comment when you indicate that a suggestion of theirs may not work for your situation... that isn't necessary. We shouldn't need to develop thick skin. maybe just a puff of smoke in their direction would help them ease back - that works for bees, why not beekeepers :) 

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Oh! I wish, but really life doesn't really work like that @PhilEvans. You gotta find the pearls in the dross! Be courageous, be discerning, filter. 

I dislike the us, them mentality, cos in the end, no one wins. This is about the beeses. Then we all win.

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7 minutes ago, PhilEvans said:

I too have learnt a lot. It is just when someone makes a negative comment when you indicate that a suggestion of theirs may not work for your situation... that isn't necessary. We shouldn't need to develop thick skin. maybe just a puff of smoke in their direction would help them ease back - that works for bees, why not beekeepers :) 

What sort of smoke, are you talking old sacks , pine needles or dried grass.

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7 hours ago, kaihoka said:

What sort of smoke, are you talking old sacks , pine needles or dried grass.

I'm told that up north they favour another type of smoke...:ph34r:

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10 hours ago, PhilEvans said:

I bet far more swarms are from commercial hives, where the focus is on money rather than the bees, and what is happening in each hive.

 

 

Calling people out has to work both ways @PhilEvans so I’m going to call you out on this comment.

You aren’t the only one to make it it’s a common theme said many times over in many different forums.

the reality is that for most commercials the focus has to be on the bees and what’s happening in each hive because without that focus there is no money.

having said that I fully understand what you are saying :)

 

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8 minutes ago, frazzledfozzle said:

 

Calling people out has to work both ways @PhilEvans so I’m going to call you out on this comment.

You aren’t the only one to make it it’s a common theme said many times over in many different forums.

the reality is that for most commercials the focus has to be on the bees and what’s happening in each hive because without that focus there is no money.

having said that I fully understand what you are saying :)

 

And as my dear old dad would say....

that’s the problem with pointing a finger

theres 3 pointing back at you

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12 hours ago, cBank said:

 

2 were in hives I rent and I opened them and looked - saw the swarm cells that had hatched and those torn open. I  called the company and their beekeeper came out and confirmed that they had swarmed. 

2 were in hives that a company put in a neighbours garden and one of them swarmed twice - both times while he was at home and saw it happen.

There was another swarm nearby too that was moderate size and I’m unsure where it came from. 

i'm hesitant to call some of the crews running backyard hive rentals 'commercials', although i guess technically they are.

 

if i was having someone rent hives i own i wouldn't be that keen on having them open the hives up without me...

Edited by tommy dave
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2 hours ago, frazzledfozzle said:

 

Calling people out has to work both ways @PhilEvans so I’m going to call you out on this comment.

You aren’t the only one to make it it’s a common theme said many times over in many different forums.

the reality is that for most commercials the focus has to be on the bees and what’s happening in each hive because without that focus there is no money.

having said that I fully understand what you are saying :)

 

There is an issue on this forum. Newbees cannot differentiate between "commercial " and "hobbyist" advisors who as I have tried to point out in several threads lately can have very different priorities. Advice that is given as gospel by a commercial can be totally inappropriate for a one or two hiver. I do think there are one or two advisors here who need to look a little closer at who they're addressing.

Edited by yesbut
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3 hours ago, tommy dave said:

if i was having someone rent hives i own i wouldn't be that keen on having them open the hives up without me...

 

I have checked and okayed this. It’s not something that has happened other than with this patch of swarms.

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@PhilEvans, i think you have read something into @tristan's comment that simply isn't there.

 

beekeeping is beekeeping, irrespective of the number of hives. There are a number of people who want to be bee-havers, rather than beekeepers. Commercial vs semi-commercial vs hobbyist isn't really relevant. I respect the intent of anyone asking questions and seeking to learn about beekeeping, and similarly respect those who give answers to the best of their beekeeping knowledge. I have learned a lot from this forum, particularly from the posts by its experienced and active members

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2 hours ago, tommy dave said:

Commercial vs semi-commercial vs hobbyist isn't really relevant. 

Sometimes it is.

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3 minutes ago, yesbut said:

Sometimes it is.

except for those times when it is relevant. fair call. i should replace 'really' with 'always' eh

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8 hours ago, yesbut said:

There is an issue on this forum. Newbees cannot differentiate between "commercial " and "hobbyist" advisors who as I have tried to point out in several threads lately can have very different priorities. Advice that is given as gospel by a commercial can be totally inappropriate for a one or two hiver. I do think there are one or two advisors here who need to look a little closer at who they're addressing.

and this is why i like forums. theres almost always someone who will say the bits that are missed, incorrect or interpreted differently.  

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