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Poor mans splits

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1 hour ago, Shem said:

saying goodbye to the bulk of this seasons income: and that's not  a good commercial decision, not even a semi-commercial one.

And for the hobbyist ?

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In a good season down here (I have forgotten what they look like now) a 5 frame nuc set out mid December, even January will go on to make a couple of boxes of honey.

With any method of increase you need to be sure in your mind what the expected outcome is, whether you want an immediate result or one that you can wait on, what resources you have at hand etc and plan accordingly.

Edited by dansar
  • Agree 3

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6 hours ago, Shem said:

The lack of success with  pauper splits is foregoing the revenue stream of 5 to 6 weeks without new brood. Even if you were to buy mated production queens, that's only 1 to 3 frames of honey (a few days production in a honey flow) for each queen;  an artificially inseminated breeder queen would cost the equivalent of 1 or 2 supers of manuka.  Up until the beginning of this week Northland has had overcast drizzly windy weather. Now that the weather is more or less settled and fine, doing pauper splits may mean saying goodbye to the bulk of this seasons income: and that's not  a good commercial decision, not even a semi-commercial one.

i don't quite agree with that.

it depends a lot on how you do it.

theres two parts to this, splitting the hive and then the using emergency queens.

 

if you take a small nuc off a hive your not going to hurt it so much you loose all your honey production.

taking away all/most of the brood can increase honey production to a point.

 

 

6 hours ago, Shem said:

The lack of success with  pauper splits is foregoing the revenue stream of 5 to 6 weeks without new brood.

honey production is really the amount of field bees the hive has. 

brood determines how fast or how many of those field bees are replaced as they die off.

brood also requires a fair bit of honey to feed.

with no brood you gain in honey production until the bee numbers drop to much,as they are not being replaced.

that can work very well for a short honey flow.

 

using emergency queens takes a bit longer which can have some issues like drifting bees off to other hives. but on the other hand mite treatments can work really well when there is no brood.

 

for a commercial beek your not going to want to turn a good hive into a weak hive. typically splitting is done before or after the flow (northland is almost always done after) so it doesn't effect flow.

 

so its not that pauper splits are going to loose you production as its all in how and when you do it that matters.

as long as you understand the drawbacks, it can be a useful method.

  • Agree 2

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Shem started out criticizing  Poor Man's splits because of the increased risk of bad Drones and Varroa

This is a beginners threat and the question of the OP related to a beginners circumstances.

Personal experience on a daily basis demonstrates to me that  Poor Man's splits are ok.

I typically spend 6 hrs a day caging Queens and inevitably come across failed cells in Mating Nucs and often enough there is a Queen in that Nuc.

These, in effect are the same as a Poor Man's Split

Would I throw these Queens away as a Varroa risk

Ask Yourself

 

 

 

Edited by Philbee
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I guess that's why I prefer to call them Maori Splits .... they are what you do when you are out in the bush and have to rely on intellect and cunning to get a positive outcome !

Poor man's splits ..... the whole thing just does'nt sound right:o

Edited by jamesc

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11 minutes ago, jamesc said:

I guess that's why I prefer to call them Maori Splits .... they are what you do when you are out in the bush and have to rely on intellect and cunning to get a positive outcome !

Poor man's splits ..... the whole thing just does'nt sound right:o

I agree, 

Poor man 's split sounds elitish and stuck up.

Im surprised Daley hasn't waded in.

  • Haha 1

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On ‎19‎/‎11‎/‎2017 at 6:06 PM, Shem said:

Just don't  have the commercial with his pauper splits setting up his apiary next to me. I don't want his varroa; his VSHless drones mating with my queens; etc....   Got lost of 2/3 of the commercial boundary loaders and  hive health has picked up amazingly..

Understand the principles behind the practicalities of breeding. If you can't do the grafting because you have a serious disability such as brain injury; cerebral palsy; motor neurone disease; or blindness, then use the Jenter method or lay a frame of standing eggs from the donor hive on its side above the brood cluster.

Rofl somebodys knickers are in a twist!  I fully understand the principles and the practicalities behind breeding(selecting larvae from hives with preferential traits, 16 days from conception to hatching, then 5-7 days for sexual maturity, then give or take a few days for mating). considering the hive has a brood break during the queenless period i dont think the varroa would be much of an issue, do you?, interestingly enough as tristian pointed out, under certain circumstances it can be beneficial in a short flow as there is no brood to rear, downside is hive strength drops substantially for subsequent flows in the season. You can keep your knickers untwisted,  i purchase mated queens from a reputable breeder and now he has given me the oppurtunity to buy q/cells from him aswell, so you can breathe a deep sigh of relief.  as it was only a question and a experiment its good to know people have had sucess with this method, i have experimented on a couple hives and it is far too slow for my liking but was an avenue i was willing to explore and in my conclusion ideally suited to the hobbiest or temporarily knocking back a hive set on swarming/organic varroa control etc(this would be requeened at a later date to ensure good genetics and productivity), but handy to have in the toolbox as a method to use when appropriote.

 

On ‎19‎/‎11‎/‎2017 at 3:45 PM, frazzledfozzle said:

In the early days of our beekeeping we used a queenless Nuc to carry our cells around on the truck, no need for any fancy carriers.

When we go out we always have queens or cells or both I can’t imagine beekeeping without having those on tap.

I envy you for that luxury Frazzledfrozzle.

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54 minutes ago, Zom-bee said:

I envy you for that luxury Frazzledfrozzl

 

Its not really a luxury it’s an important aspect of beekeeping, it used to be that producing your own queens and cells was the rule rather than the exception it is now :(

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