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Poor mans splits

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Hi, anybody had any reasnoble sucess with poor mans splits? the method im comtemplating is to divide a queenright double f/d broodboxes in half with the "queen and brood" being placed a few metres away from original location. The other half is to reamain in place with a frame or two of fresh eggs to raise emergency queens and utilise the field bees to compensate for the delay in replacement brood.  thanks

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thats basically a half split.

the poor mans bit is the emergency queens cells.

thats one of my standard ways of splitting tho i use single brood hives which makes it easier.

with doubles, instead of splitting the brood boxes apart simply move the whole hive first. then use a super as the new hive brood box.

the reason for doing it that way is so you don't have to go find the queen.

you can convert the double brood to single brood at a later date if you so wish.

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30 minutes ago, Zom-bee said:

Hi, anybody had any reasnoble sucess with poor mans splits? the method im comtemplating is to divide a queenright double f/d broodboxes in half with the "queen and brood" being placed a few metres away from original location. The other half is to reamain in place with a frame or two of fresh eggs to raise emergency queens and utilise the field bees to compensate for the delay in replacement brood.  thanks

We have lotsa success with poor mans splits ..... we used to call them Maori splits, but someone took umbrage at that  [ I still do anyway as it lightens up the day] ..... BUT .... as long as the split has a frame or so of eggs in it it and the stars are aligned it should work well. The catch is , if you are'nt in a hurry to get the hive up and running to gather some  expensive honey all is good. If you are running to a contract and got landowners to keep happy, then pop a cell in , or a mated queen.

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And my theory is if I squash the first capped cell I've got a better chance of a youthful conversion.

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i did a poor-man/walkaway split today. I'm fairly confident of the outcome, based on every other walkaway split i've done.

 

i've got no idea which of the two daughter hives contains the queen. Guess i'll take a look in about a week and find out.

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1 minute ago, tommy dave said:

i've got no idea which of the two daughter hives contains the queen. Guess i'll take a look in about a week and find out.

Me too !  Yesterday. Need a spare Q.

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11 minutes ago, yesbut said:

Me too !  Yesterday. Need a spare Q.

Is that .... you need a spare queen or you have a spare queen ? 

Ps had another freedom biker up here today .... following his GPS to Timaru. I think there must be good ones and bad ones.

 

 

 

 

Edited by jamesc
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27 minutes ago, jamesc said:

Is that .... you need a spare queen or you have a spare queen ? 

Ps had another freedom biker up here today .... following his GPS to Timaru. I think there must be good ones and bad ones.

 

 

 

 

He must of been following the wrong stars aye @jamesc ?

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34 minutes ago, jamesc said:

Is that .... you need a spare queen or you have a spare queen ? 

Ps had another freedom biker up here today .... following his GPS to Timaru. I think there must be good ones and bad ones.

 

 

 

 

50% of my hives has a bung Q who is due for the splish. When I have another.

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I did my first walk away split this season. It was successful. I now have a new colony and a beautifully golden queen. 

I was a little worried what sort of queen i was going to get as the brood frames were from my wretched mole of a queen. You know the ones. The ######s seen you coming and prepare to blitz from a 100yards. Anyways she is shaping up to be ok. 

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2 hours ago, tristan said:

thats basically a half split.

the poor mans bit is the emergency queens cells.

thats one of my standard ways of splitting tho i use single brood hives which makes it easier.

with doubles, instead of splitting the brood boxes apart simply move the whole hive first. then use a super as the new hive brood box.

the reason for doing it that way is so you don't have to go find the queen.

you can convert the double brood to single brood at a later date if you so wish.

I assume that is with drawn frames and a frame of brood in the super.

 

1 hour ago, jamesc said:

We have lotsa success with poor mans splits ..... we used to call them Maori splits, but someone took umbrage at that  [ I still do anyway as it lightens up the day] ..... BUT .... as long as the split has a frame or so of eggs in it it and the stars are aligned it should work well. The catch is , if you are'nt in a hurry to get the hive up and running to gather some  expensive honey all is good. If you are running to a contract and got landowners to keep happy, then pop a cell in , or a mated queen.

What is the expexted timeframe from split to laying queen? am i wrong in assuming about 4 weeks, basically im looking to double my numbers cheaply. would it be possible to do it now and again in feb-march?

 

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3 minutes ago, Zom-bee said:

I assume that is with drawn frames and a frame of brood in the super.

 

What is the expexted timeframe from split to laying queen? am i wrong in assuming about 4 weeks, basically im looking to double my numbers cheaply. would it be possible to do it now and again in feb-march?

 

yes, you take some brood and put it in the super. it helps if that super has been on the hive for a while and is nicely full of bees.

 

time, my last ones a few weeks back was about 34 days. one downside to emergency queens is the extra time delay.

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@Zom-bee I use this queen rearing calendar. It might have been @deejaycee put me onto it. 

http://www.thebeeyard.org/queen-rearing-calendar/

 

Time to laying queen for your walk away split would be about the same give or take a day.

Edited by Rob Stockley
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i would give or take a week or two.

even in my last lot there was a difference of a week between some of the hives (same site).

add in different locations and different weather, it can vary a bit.

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I always make sure the queenless split has standing eggs

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Would it be possible to do them now and then again in autumn? some have swarmed and i am splitting those doubles sitting beside eachother sharing field bees, each hive has q/cell in them, best practice? is it possible to do this to a single f/d brood box effectively doing poor mans nucs?

 thanks

 

 

Edited by Zom-bee

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it all depends on what condition the hives are in now and what your sites do over summer.

yes its quite possible, but we shall see.

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lol i agree this beekeeping is rather fickle and tempermental 

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1 hour ago, Philbee said:

I always make sure the queenless split has standing eggs

Just laid ones  Do you mean ?

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7 hours ago, kaihoka said:

Just laid ones  Do you mean ?

No, when the egg is laid it stands up in the cell. Just before it hatches it lays over. It takes the bees a couple of days to realise they're queenless and start making cells. By picking frames with standing eggs @Philbee is ensuring that there will still be very young grubs available in a few days time. 

Edited by Rob Stockley
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10 hours ago, Philbee said:

I always make sure the queenless split has standing eggs

i always make sure both daughter hives have standing eggs - saves spending time locating the queen if i don't see her in passing

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10 hours ago, Zom-bee said:

Would it be possible to do them now and then again in autumn? some have swarmed and i am splitting those doubles sitting beside eachother sharing field bees, each hive has q/cell in them, best practice? is it possible to do this to a single f/d brood box effectively doing poor mans nucs?

 thanks

 

 

you can do it whenever the hives are strong enough and have enough resources. Heck, you can walkaway split the queenright of the two daughter hives a few days later if you were splitting from strength in the first place.

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10 minutes ago, tommy dave said:

i always make sure both daughter hives have standing eggs - saves spending time locating the queen if i don't see her in passing

It helps to have the glasses on too (if needed)

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11 hours ago, Rob Stockley said:

It takes the bees a couple of days to realise they're queenless and start making cells.

i think thats more like a couple of hours ??

 

having eggs is good, it usually means there is brood in different stages. bees can take their pick.

if you don't have eggs there is a risk of the brood being to old to make a good queen.

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Sorry, can't see how poor man's splits are breeding (this sub-forum). Poor man's splits are what it says: do it and you end up a poor man. Over on this other thread:

https://www.nzbees.net/forums/topic/11479-buying-queens-vs-pauper-split/

there is this gift:

On 11/14/2017 at 9:59 AM, frazzledfozzle said:

Agree with @Rob Stockley pauper splits are fine for hobbyist beekeepers

However, right here the opening poster zom-bee is a semi-commercial, and should be looking to improve his bees.

Yes, I've kind of had satisfactory results from  poor man's splits using hives well bred queens VSH & great honey gathering skills . However the odds are less than you would get from an  intelligent breeding programme.

If you are not going to breed, then at least buy say half the queens you need from a reputable breeder.

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