Best queen producing & mating method???

[JasonK 59]

What’s the most successful queen producing & mating combo out there? I’ve researched a number of different ways but I’m curious to hear from those with experience. I’d be keen to make at least 50 mated queens annually. 

 

 

[Rob Stockley 3,417]

9 hours ago, JasonK said:

What’s the most successful queen producing & mating combo out there? I’ve researched a number of different ways but I’m curious to hear from those with experience. I’d be keen to make at least 50 mated queens annually. 

 

 

This is a "how long is a piece of string" kind of question. The best method really depends on you, the beekeeper.

 

I do small numbers of cells, infrequently, and find the Cloake method works well for me. When requeening I use protected cells. Leftover cells go into mini NUCs for mating. This method works well for me because it fits with the gear I have, my experience to date, and the time I have available to commit to the task. Your circumstances will be different.

[Daley 4,351]

10 hours ago, JasonK said:

What’s the most successful queen producing & mating combo out there? I’ve researched a number of different ways but I’m curious to hear from those with experience. I’d be keen to make at least 50 mated queens annually. 

 

 

Make 5 and see if you still feel that way.

I dipped my toe in to queen breeding.

I decided it was a heck of a lot of work, and the bees don’t always cooperate when you need them too.

 

I always used queen right hives with a pheromone cloak board and had good results.

@Philbee had a good breeding thread on here recently but I don’t recall what it was called

[Philbee 4,675]

31 minutes ago, Daley said:

Make 5 and see if you still feel that way.

I dipped my toe in to queen breeding.

I decided it was a heck of a lot of work, and the bees don’t always cooperate when you need them too.

 

I always used queen right hives with a pheromone cloak board and had good results.

@Philbee had a good breeding thread on here recently but I don’t recall what it was called

My brother uses one of those kits and was able to produce Queens for his own use from the very start.

I use variations of the Cloake method but have also used John Berry's method of a box full off shook young bees.

Ive had good results also from just splitting a small Queenright nuc from a big hive and then using the Queenless hive to start and finish cells.

My advice for the tempted, buy cells.

[JasonK 59]

On 11/6/2017 at 6:08 AM, Rob Stockley said:

This is a "how long is a piece of string" kind of question. The best method really depends on you, the beekeeper.

 

I do small numbers of cells, infrequently, and find the Cloake method works well for me. When requeening I use protected cells. Leftover cells go into mini NUCs for mating. This method works well for me because it fits with the gear I have, my experience to date, and the time I have available to commit to the task. Your circumstances will be different.

Spot on thanks

[Alastair 8,627]

On ‎5‎/‎11‎/‎2017 at 8:46 PM, JasonK said:

What’s the most successful queen producing & mating combo out there? 

 

If you find out what it is, please let the rest of us know .

[kaihoka 2,975]

On 06/11/2017 at 7:57 AM, Philbee said:

My brother uses one of those kits and was able to produce Queens for his own use from the very start.

I use variations of the Cloake method but have also used John Berry's method of a box full off shook young bees.

Ive had good results also from just splitting a small Queenright nuc from a big hive and then using the Queenless hive to start and finish cells.

My advice for the tempted, buy cells.

I have been trying to find the queen breeding thread @Daley mentioned but have had no luck.

Any chance you could help .

[Philbee 4,675]

14 minutes ago, kaihoka said:

I have been trying to find the queen breeding thread @Daley mentioned but have had no luck.

Any chance you could help .

Its not really a Queen breeding thread.

The only way that anyone is realistically able to learn is to get a book then invest a lot of time and effort into the subject

[kaihoka 2,975]

40 minutes ago, Philbee said:

Its not really a Queen breeding thread.

The only way that anyone is realistically able to learn is to get a book then invest a lot of time and effort into the subject

Thank you.

I have not yet got a book but I do seem to be investing a lot of time and effort .

[Philbee 4,675]

6 hours ago, kaihoka said:

Thank you.

I have not yet got a book but I do seem to be investing a lot of time and effort .

A book will help to direct the time and effort.

Its a huge topic and not one that can be covered in a few paragraphs on a forum.

If it could be there wouldn't be whole books devoted to the topic.

I would say that its more difficult than shoeing a horse, if that is of any help

[Philbee 4,675]

I shouldn't laugh but its amazing how some people inquire about getting a Queen to start off a hive.

They ask if she will come with enough bees to get started.

I always make sure that these people understand that they need a Nuc and it will likely die some time before next spring.

[Daley 4,351]

5 hours ago, Philbee said:

I shouldn't laugh but its amazing how some people inquire about getting a Queen to start off a hive.

They ask if she will come with enough bees to get started.

I always make sure that these people understand that they need a Nuc and it will likely die some time before next spring.

Yeah it’s really quite scary how many people think you can just get bees and they make honey, the end.

[Beefriendly 1,254]

6 minutes ago, Daley said:

Yeah it’s really quite scary how many people think you can just get bees and they make honey, the end.

As a new beek, it’s the most common question I get asked

”Do you get much honey off your hives?”

I get great pleasure in telling them that there is so much more to beeking than honey ? 

Firstly the honey is the bees food....

[Daley 4,351]

1 hour ago, Beefriendly said:

As a new beek, it’s the most common question I get asked

”Do you get much honey off your hives?”

I get great pleasure in telling them that there is so much more to beeking than honey ? 

Firstly the honey is the bees food....

I usually get “do you get stung?” ?

[Kiwi Bee 589]

This season I tried with a kit and so far I am stuck. The queen did not lay a single egg in the cells/cups(I tried two hives within a week time and the outcome was the same).

After I let her out of the box she lie a frame of eggs till next day(both cases/hives the same). Crazy blondes

 

The QL hive will make two rounds of EQs by the time I manage to pull out some results with this kit. I better graft in the weekend.

[Beefriendly 1,254]

35 minutes ago, Daley said:

I usually get “do you get stung?” ?

Yep .. that too

LOL

I was asked at work if I was Linda Bee yesterday.... go figure

[kaihoka 2,975]

On 09/11/2017 at 3:34 PM, Philbee said:

A book will help to direct the time and effort.

Its a huge topic and not one that can be covered in a few paragraphs on a forum.

If it could be there wouldn't be whole books devoted to the topic.

I would say that its more difficult than shoeing a horse, if that is of any help

What book would you recommend .

 

[JasonK 59]

Perhaps cell punch method is a good way to harvest queen cells, but I am looking for big, gnarly, supercedure quality queens. I want them to stuff big cells with primo jelly and produce big mommas. I may use mini nucs or maybe a few full depth boxes split in 4. Maybe grafting is the way to go but then how can I incorporate an element of natural selection between new queens? Let 3 fight it out to the death and only use the victors of each death match for my breeding nucs?? 

[yesbut 6,230]

9 hours ago, kaihoka said:

What book would you recommend

Woodward's book from Ecrotek ?? 

[Daley 4,351]

8 hours ago, JasonK said:

Perhaps cell punch method is a good way to harvest queen cells, but I am looking for big, gnarly, supercedure quality queens. I want them to stuff big cells with primo jelly and produce big mommas. I may use mini nucs or maybe a few full depth boxes split in 4. Maybe grafting is the way to go but then how can I incorporate an element of natural selection between new queens? Let 3 fight it out to the death and only use the victors of each death match for my breeding nucs?? 

Sometimes the bees will make big cells, sometimes they won’t.

We can trick them to a point but they’re not stupid, you will always get the best cells when it is a time that is natural to the bees to make them and when they think they have the surplus resources to put in to them.

The best way to get good cells is to use and incredibly strong hive to make them.

 

The best way to incorporate natural selection is by carefully picking your breeder by traits you want in your queens.

I select breeders from hundreds of hives and it takes a long time to pick them, I will choose ones I like and write on them at visits as a potential breeder and if they end up displaying a trait I don’t want I won’t breed from them.

A lot of people will buy in breeder queens from the likes of Betta bees and they will be artificially inseminated so you know exactly what genetics you are incorporating, I personally don’t buy in queens but occasionally get cells off a friend who breeds from a betta bees queen.

There is a lot to be said for selecting queens that do well in your area.

 

If you only have a small number of hives you have very few options for breeding and if you want to sell cells to others that are proven you are best to invest in a AI breeder queen.

I wouldn’t be putting cells in my hives that came from just anywhere so if you have a trusted name it will kickstart you as a breeder.

 

A lot of people will let their queens fight using protected cells and what not, I’m not a huge fan of this because the winner can still end up damaged, and I have seen drone layers win, so the best queen doesn’t always win.

Edited November 10, 2017 by Daley

[john berry 5,636]

If you want natural selection then get some African bees. They will fight off every disease that beekeepers know about, unfortunately they will also fight of the beekeeper.Daley is absolutely right about how to select a breeder and why it is not a good idea to have more than one cell in a hive. I have seen many drone layers with brown freckles on their abdomens which are caused by stings. These queens won the fight but lost the war. Cell size doesn't seem to make much difference to the quality of the Queen as long as they are not tiny. If I have any doubt I open the smallest ones to see if they have any uneaten jelly. If there's leftover jelly then they had all they can eat.

[Rob Stockley 3,417]

On 10/11/2017 at 11:54 AM, Philbee said:

I shouldn't laugh but its amazing how

Oh yes you should. Make sure it's loud enough that they hear at the other end of the phone. 

[Daley 4,351]

14 minutes ago, Rob Stockley said:

Oh yes you should. Make sure it's loud enough that they hear at the other end of the phone. 

I would probably just hang up..

[Rob Stockley 3,417]

4 minutes ago, Daley said:

I would probably just hang up..

Absolutely! But the caller should hear you laughing as the phone goes dead. 

[JasonK 59]

On 11/6/2017 at 6:08 AM, Rob Stockley said:

This is a "how long is a piece of string" kind of question. The best method really depends on you, the beekeeper.

 

I do small numbers of cells, infrequently, and find the Cloake method works well for me. When requeening I use protected cells. Leftover cells go into mini NUCs for mating. This method works well for me because it fits with the gear I have, my experience to date, and the time I have available to commit to the task. Your circumstances will be different.

That’s cool, can you elaborate a little bit on your mini nucs and what they contain / how / when you run them? Thanks, great info