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jamesc

Manuka standards

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If it’s not for export the new standard doesn’t apply.

The tests you have done aren’t actually the new mpi Manuka standard tests do, so no-one can tell from your results if the honey would or wouldn’t meet either the multifloral or monofloral standard 

Edited by Trevor Gillbanks
Grammar correction as requested.

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@frazzledfozzle the way I read it, he's trying to save $250 and see if anyone knows what the chances are of his low npa honey meeting the standard. Of course nobody knows for sure. 

 

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8 hours ago, Daniel Benefield said:

Can any of you knowledgeable folks in this game tell me if this is likely to pass as Manuka multi?

Screenshot_20180322-094948.jpg

In my opinion may get to npa 5 if you are lucky, a sniff of Manuka .

maybe bush blend 

Weather it will pass the multi Manuka you will have do the MPI test and add to the knowledge bank because the rest of us are still trying to make sense of it?

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1 hour ago, Merk said:

@frazzledfozzle the way I read it, he's trying to save $250 and see if anyone knows what the chances are of his low npa honey meeting the standard. Of course nobody knows for sure. 

 

Tests are on the way. 

 

1 hour ago, Rob Atkinson said:

In my opinion may get to npa 5 if you are lucky, a sniff of Manuka .

maybe bush blend 

Weather it will pass the multi Manuka you will have do the MPI test and add to the knowledge bank because the rest of us are still trying to make sense of it?

Cheers Rob.

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@Daniel Benefield hope you get good results.

This year its impossible to know what's worth testing and what's not. I've just decided to spend the $$$$ and test as much as possible. Hopefully that puts me in a position to make educated guesses next season and bring my lab bill down

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12 hours ago, fieldbee said:

 

Our next discussion day

Our discussion day will be on Fri the 23rd March at Bruce Lowes place 14 Morton Rd Aongatete Tauranga, first drive on right after tennis court, Tauranga at 1.00pm

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I'm starting to see why APINZ had trouble getting through to MPI :4_joy::4_joy::4_joy:

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1 hour ago, Dennis Crowley said:

Our next discussion day

Our discussion day will be on Fri the 23rd March at Bruce Lowes place 14 Morton Rd Aongatete Tauranga, first drive on right after tennis court, Tauranga at 1.00pm

 

there could be a lot of shouting by the looks of it

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12 hours ago, Daniel Benefield said:

Can any of you knowledgeable folks in this game tell me if this is likely to pass as Manuka multi?Screenshot_20180322-094948.jpg

One of my sites has tested 900 DHA.. NPA is 6 and projected growth out to 7.9 UMF because of the DHA level, however only made 380 of  3 phenyl.. not quiet the 400

My C4 for this is 7.1... I run dbl brood colonies and have never had sugar anywhere near them.. sugar results are due to reactions in the honey. 

I'd love to know what the strongest tests have been... highest npa, mgo, dha, 3 pla.. etc .... just to see where my own stuff sits. 

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13 hours ago, Stoney said:

One of my sites has tested 900 DHA.. NPA is 6 and projected growth out to 7.9 UMF because of the DHA level, however only made 380 of  3 phenyl.. not quiet the 400

My C4 for this is 7.1... I run dbl brood colonies and have never had sugar anywhere near them.. sugar results are due to reactions in the honey. 

I'd love to know what the strongest tests have been... highest npa, mgo, dha, 3 pla.. etc .... just to see where my own stuff sits. 

Unfortunately high dha almost always equals high c4. 

Someone did an experiment where they took pure honey with no c4s in it and added a lot of synthetic dha. C4s went through the roof. 

 

This is what APINZ should be working on. 

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On 3/22/2018 at 11:04 PM, Stoney said:

One of my sites has tested 900 DHA.. NPA is 6 and projected growth out to 7.9 UMF because of the DHA level, however only made 380 of  3 phenyl.. not quiet the 400

My C4 for this is 7.1... I run dbl brood colonies and have never had sugar anywhere near them.. sugar results are due to reactions in the honey. 

I'd love to know what the strongest tests have been... highest npa, mgo, dha, 3 pla.. etc .... just to see where my own stuff sits. 

We’ve had some honey with 2700 dha and a c4 result of up to 12.6 !! We do feed syrup but the hives went into the season with 3 or 4 frames of stores over two brood boxes and had 3 or four boxes harvested off them, nothing taken from below the excluder. Has one one else had c4 results they believe are false ??? 

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I'm not sure the c4 results are false I think they show the relationships and reactions between the active ingredients in the honey. 

Which of course makes those of us that don't feed sugar jump up and down. 

What was the NPA on your batch Nikki watts? 

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16 hours ago, Stoney said:

I'm not sure the c4 results are false I think they show the relationships and reactions between the active ingredients in the honey. 

Which of course makes those of us that don't feed sugar jump up and down. 

What was the NPA on your batch Nikki watts? 

11.5

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@nikki watts I've got a few in double figures, we did minimal syrup feeding in the spring.

Here's the interesting thing: Some spring apiaries were fed the same all winter, then I grade the hives before manuka with only the strongest going to the manuka sites. The rest stay put and produce multifloral honey. 

 

If I compare the c4 results, the manuka half of the apiary has high c4s but the multifloral hives have next to nothing. Same feeding schedule. 

 

Edited by Merk
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Just now, Merk said:

@nikki I've got a few in double figures, we did minimal syrup feeding in the spring.

Here's the interesting thing: Some spring apiaries were fed the same all winter, then I grade the hives before manuka with only the strongest going to the manuka sites. The rest stay put and produce multifloral honey. 

 

If I compare the c4 results, the manuka half of the apiary has high c4s but the multifloral hives have next to nothing. Same feeding schedule. 

 

Yeah, it's really frustrating. We only did one spring feed round and that was in sept. Honey boxes went on in nov With, I felt, minimal stores, just enough to to keep the hives building. We don't have a spring flow here at all. If we don't feed the bees end up building on the manuka  flow. 

i guess with people not feeding any syrup and getting over 7% we can only leave a frame of stores and watch the weather REALLY closely. I haven't checked our jbush honey to see what the c4 is like in that, but they had the same feed round as the manuka so it would be interesting to find out.  

Ive talked to mpi and they know theres a problem with the manuka c4 results but they aren't interested in chasing an exemption from China etc like some overseas honeys have as the science is too expensive and it's not their problem. 

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@nikki wattsHopefully with that high dha you might have an option to blend it down to usable levels. If you have mgo 300 + dha 3000 then even if you dilute by half you've got a umf 7-8 with good growth potential. 

Would be good if MPI was a bit more proactive on this issue. 

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1 hour ago, nikki watts said:

Yeah, it's really frustrating. We only did one spring feed round and that was in sept. Honey boxes went on in nov With, I felt, minimal stores, just enough to to keep the hives building. We don't have a spring flow here at all. If we don't feed the bees end up building on the manuka  flow. 

i guess with people not feeding any syrup and getting over 7% we can only leave a frame of stores and watch the weather REALLY closely. I haven't checked our jbush honey to see what the c4 is like in that, but they had the same feed round as the manuka so it would be interesting to find out.  

Ive talked to mpi and they know theres a problem with the manuka c4 results but they aren't interested in chasing an exemption from China etc like some overseas honeys have as the science is too expensive and it's not their problem. 

Have you ruled out robbing someone else’s sugar ?

Probably hard to do unless you have a very isolated site. 

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While there is no doubt that some people feed more sugar than they should there is also no doubt that false positives occur with manuka honey. There are a few scientists who are very knowledgeable about this problem and it's way past time that MPI sorted this problem out.

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2 hours ago, M4tt said:

Have you ruled out robbing someone else’s sugar ?

Probably hard to do unless you have a very isolated site. 

We’ve thought about that. Hope it’s just beekeeper error, that’s the easiest thing to fix next year. 

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2 hours ago, john berry said:

While there is no doubt that some people feed more sugar than they should there is also no doubt that false positives occur with manuka honey. There are a few scientists who are very knowledgeable about this problem and it's way past time that MPI sorted this problem out.

I agree. Unfortunately MPI aren’t interested in getting involved. They told me as it’s the international importers who are demanding the test and not the NZ government they couldn’t care less how much high value Manuka honey isn’t able to be exported to those counties. Their advise is to export to a country that doesn’t care, blend it down or sell to the domestic market. 

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4 hours ago, nikki watts said:

the science is too expensive and it's not their problem. 

 

I’m sure you’re right but this is so poor. The government is there for sorting out problems like this, that’s their job. If the relevant agency isn’t doing its job, the minister should be given a hard time until they do. 

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8 hours ago, Merk said:

If I compare the c4 results, the manuka half of the apiary has high c4s but the multifloral hives have next to nothing. Same feeding schedule.

 

I can't recall where, there was some information regarding syrup and pasture honey.  Something like- surprising amount of syrup can end up in pasture honey before being tested too high.  

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On 3/25/2018 at 5:39 PM, nikki watts said:

I agree. Unfortunately MPI aren’t interested in getting involved. They told me as it’s the international importers who are demanding the test and not the NZ government they couldn’t care less how much high value Manuka honey isn’t able to be exported to those counties. Their advise is to export to a country that doesn’t care, blend it down or sell to the domestic market. 

That’s retarded.

Sounds exactly like the NZ government doesn’t it. Because it wouldn’t be in their best interest for us to be exporting high value product ??

 

I had a buyer tell me I had high c4’s a couple of years back on some weak active honey, the hives had never been fed and they can’t have robbed it from anywhere as they were in the middle of a farm with only me on it.

Your definitely not the only one

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So who voted jacinda in ?

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1 hour ago, jamesc said:

So who voted jacinda in ?

Me .:14_relaxed:

Edited by kaihoka

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