NZBF Robber and empty hive. Advice please.

[kaihoka 2,975]

2 hours ago, Trevor Gillbanks said:

I don't on the Hive Doctor Bases as they are semi vented and it has not been a problem for me.

You could lift the boxes off and put a sheet of newspaper over the vents.

i do not think i have seen a fully vented base

[Trevor Gillbanks 6,846]

36 minutes ago, kaihoka said:

i do not think i have seen a fully vented base

A base is fully vented when the boards are removed and mesh is put into the floor.

[M4tt 4,941]

2 hours ago, kaihoka said:

i do not think i have seen a fully vented base

[Michelle L. 55]

Hi everyone,

I'ma new beek, am thinking of going for thehive doctor smart boards. I have watched your YouTube videos @Trevor Gillbanks, they have been great and explain the updates made from the original hive doctor bottom boards. I just have one question. Do you still use the 50mm rim to lift the hive up, to stop potential melt with the oxalic vaporizer? You did mention the new smart board has now incorporated a gap to help with this issue, but i just wondered with your own experience do you think the shin is a necessary safe guard.

 

Thanks so much, I look forward to Trev's as well as anyone's elses experiences with using the smart board ☺

[yesbut 6,232]

Others may shoot me down for this, but @Michelle L. I think you'll have enough of a learning curve staying with a traditional wood floor and sort of "traditional" mite treatments without jumping straight into fancy gear and fancy treatments.

Edited September 19, 2017 by yesbut

[Michelle L. 55]

Thanks @yesbut, that's solid advice, however I'm keen to go with non synthetic treatments, hopefully maqs arrive in November as mentioned. Of course if things get out of hand I'll default to synthetic treatments. 

[Trevor Gillbanks 6,846]

5 hours ago, Michelle L. said:

Hi everyone,

I'ma new beek, am thinking of going for thehive doctor smart boards. I have watched your YouTube videos @Trevor Gillbanks, they have been great and explain the updates made from the original hive doctor bottom boards. I just have one question. Do you still use the 50mm rim to lift the hive up, to stop potential melt with the oxalic vaporizer? You did mention the new smart board has now incorporated a gap to help with this issue, but i just wondered with your own experience do you think the shin is a necessary safe guard.

 

Thanks so much, I look forward to Trev's as well as anyone's elses experiences with using the smart board ☺

Yes it will work.  However, as @yesbuthas said. Learn the basics first.  By the time you realise there is a problem it is probably to late to recover.

[Wildflower 465]

On 19/09/2017 at 8:25 AM, Trevor Gillbanks said:

The Manawatu is pretty cold and wet over winter. Specially this winter.

Hive Doctor floors are semi ventilated. not fully vented as in mesh floors.

To each there own.  I am just saying moisture in a hive is not as a result in the Hive Doctor base.  Usually the problem is insufficient bees through some other problem (like varroa).

I couldn't be dryer here. Dampness is not my problem. Varroa was. Pretty certain of that now. I want to learn more about fornic? or Oxalic  acid treatments. Not worth it for me to invest in the vaporizer but the drip? treatment? Over Winter? There must be some good advice on this in this forum...

[kaihoka 2,975]

1 hour ago, Wildflower said:

I couldn't be dryer here. Dampness is not my problem. Varroa was. Pretty certain of that now. I want to learn more about fornic? or Oxalic  acid treatments. Not worth it for me to invest in the vaporizer but the drip? treatment? Over Winter? There must be some good advice on this in this forum...

Have you ever used bayvarol or Apivar ?

Edited September 20, 2017 by kaihoka
Grammar

[M4tt 4,941]

1 hour ago, Wildflower said:

I couldn't be dryer here. Dampness is not my problem. Varroa was. Pretty certain of that now. I want to learn more about fornic? or Oxalic  acid treatments. Not worth it for me to invest in the vaporizer but the drip? treatment? Over Winter? There must be some good advice on this in this forum...

Varroa treatments take time to get a handle on, and even then , nothing is for sure .  

For me , Formic acid is an excellent knockdown , but if used , say mid Feb after the honey comes off , it needs to be followed by something else . MAQS is only a 1 week treatment and leaves the hive open to reinvasion before winter . 

When my honey comes off, Apivar goes in for 10 weeks, which gets me to winter . So I'm covered well for that period . Anything with an obvious mite loading also gets 2 MAQS at the same time . 

 

However, many of my hives have brood through winter , which is ideal for varroa to build up again , so I can't become complacent . In mid June, I go in with an oxalic dribble . The bees are generally very unhappy to be inspected mid winter , and are very stingy. Unfortunately the boxes need to be cracked to get to all frames where 5 mls per seam if bees is syringed into them . There's no need to inspect frames . I use Randy Oliver's recipe for medium strength oxalic dribble , which can be found on Scientific Beekeeping webpage. At the start of August my hives were all strong and I had no winter losses( about 40 hives) from varroa. 

I sugar shaked and although there were varroa, only three hives were at 3 per 300 bees. The rest were mostly zero. 

I was going to treat with MAQS, but didn't need to , so I used one dose of Api life var , and have no varroa issues to date . 

What I don't know is how effective Api life var is on heavily infested hives , but it's certainly cleaned up the low grade varroa loading I had . 

 

The thing about varroa and treatments is to monitor before and after treatment , and remember what does and doesn't work . There are differing application methods within treatments which are worth taking note of . 

Also, it's best not to let varroa loading get high, as this is detrimental longer term to the hives survivality. 

 

So view your experience as a learning curve. We've all been there and no doubt we all will again ?

[kaihoka 2,975]

@m4tt my varroa treatment regime has remained the same over the years but my hive mortality has varied greatly .

Varroa came very late to our area and I wonder if the mites here do not have the resistance of other areas.

But the migrant bees would bring their own varroa.

However over winter after a bayvarol treatment the bees have the place to them selves and a decent flow in the hakea.

Brood means mites but maybe the bees can manage the mite population  when they are expanding .

My bayvarol goes in late , April may , and I use OA over the summer.

Apivar in 1st of Sep.

My hives are full of pseudo scorpions too. My check boards always have them on after treatment.

[Alastair 8,627]

1 hour ago, Wildflower said:

 I want to learn more about fornic? or Oxalic  acid treatments. Not worth it for me to invest in the vaporizer but the drip? treatment? Over Winter? 

Oxalic acid vapour treatment can be repeated many times without harm to the hive, but not so oxalic acid dribble. Because oxalic acid is very toxic if fed to bee larvae. Oxalic acid dribble is mixed with sugar, which means some gets licked up by the bees and stored with the honey, and can later be fed to bee larvae. If one dribble treatment is done, it isn't enough to have a serious effect on larvae. But more than one dribble treatment and you start running into problems. Hives that had multiple oxalic dribbles in winter have smaller brood nests than hives that didn't. Oxalic vapour does not have such a negative effect because less of it ends up in the food supply.

[M4tt 4,941]

1 minute ago, Alastair said:

Oxalic acid vapour treatment can be repeated many times without harm to the hive, but not so oxalic acid dribble. Because oxalic acid is very toxic if fed to bee larvae. Oxalic acid dribble is mixed with sugar, which means some gets licked up by the bees and stored with the honey, and can later be fed to bee larvae. If one dribble treatment is done, it isn't enough to have a serious effect on larvae. But more than one dribble treatment and you start running into problems. Hives that had multiple oxalic dribbles in winter have smaller brood nests than hives that didn't. Oxalic vapour does not have such a negative effect because less of it ends up in the food supply.

Totally agree. It's strictly a once only treatment , well timed in winter , mid way between late season and new season treatments 

[kaihoka 2,975]

I have only ever used the OA vapour.

I am to risk adverse to experiment with the dribble.

[Beefriendly 1,254]

3 hours ago, M4tt said:

Randy Oliver's recipe for medium strength oxalic dribble , which can be found on Scientific Beekeeping webpage.

Well worth a visit to this site IMHO

[Sil29er 284]

On 9/18/2017 at 8:35 AM, Alastair said:

That's the problem for new beekeepers with varroa. Once the mites have weakened the hive, it is prone to a bunch of other problems, such as robbing, getting cold, etc.

 

The inexperienced beekeeper recognises the secondary problems and blames the death on robbing, too few bees in too big a hive, attack by wasps, starvation, or whatever. But misses that these are symptoms not the cause. So gets new bees, still fails to treat effectively, and does the whole thing again. 

 

 

Well, according to other threads on this very forum, it could happen to very experienced beekepers as well. I think we need to stop looking down on "new beekeepers" and start helping everyone, new and old, as we are all here to learn.

In any case, it is said that humans are the only animal that trips over the same rock twice....

[Alastair 8,627]

The post was meant to be helpful not looking down on anyone. I too have been a new beekeeper in fact I was a hobbyist for 3 years before I got a job with a commercial, I went through a learning curve and made mistakes same as everyone. That's where I'm speaking from I've been there.

 

I see people make mistakes and lose hives, and not understand why then do it again. It can be heartbreaking for people, that's why I made the post. Read it again.

 

Problem with the net, you say something, and because the body language is not shown people take it completely wrong.

Edited September 21, 2017 by Alastair

[yesbut 6,232]

1 hour ago, Sil29er said:

I think we need to stop looking down on "new beekeepers"

I really can't see how you got this from  @Alastair's post.

[Alastair 8,627]

To be fair I can see it could be taken that way, I should have been somehow more tactful and sometimes I shoot my mouth. 

 

But i guess it can be a thin line saying something that runs counter to another persons view, without offending someone. But by definition a chat site is an exchange of ideas and participants must be open to it.

Edited September 21, 2017 by Alastair

[kaihoka 2,975]

4 hours ago, Sil29er said:

 

Well, according to other threads on this very forum, it could happen to very experienced beekepers as well. I think we need to stop looking down on "new beekeepers" and start helping everyone, new and old, as we are all here to learn.

In any case, it is said that humans are the only animal that trips over the same rock twice....

Obviously you do not watch  utube cat videos.

[Wildflower 465]

No gain to getting offended and I am sure no one on his forum want to intentionally offend.  . I am, an almost 3 year old nube. Thought I was kind intelligent and nurturing enough not to lose my bees. Duh!

Experience can only be learned over time, and with experience. Good and bad. Suck it up. Each year we learn....

 

[Daley 4,351]

Please if you are learning, use synthetic strips.

 

It doesn't mean you have to use them forever but there is a lot to beekeeping and if you want to experiment with varroa treatments before you know anything about your bees then you won't have them for very long at all.

 

I am never trying to put down new beekeepers when I say start with a conventional hive and synthetics, I am still using conventional hives and synthetics and I've been doing bees for about 6 years.

 

If you are new there is a good chance you won't know that your hive is going downhill until it is too late to save it, or it is already dead.

Minimise your risk, keep it simple.

[AdamD 338]

Oxalic Acid dribble is easy and works very well when there is no brood, I have seen no queen mortality as a result. I only do it once a year during winter or on a swarm perhaps. In the UK, Bayvarol and Apistan are not so good now as varroa have grown resistant to them in many areas so you may find that you will need to use another treatment if resistance starts to be a problem.

 

In the UK, most beekeepers use mesh bases all year.

Edited October 1, 2017 by AdamD

[Daley 4,351]

On 10/1/2017 at 10:20 PM, AdamD said:

Oxalic Acid dribble is easy and works very well when there is no brood, I have seen no queen mortality as a result. I only do it once a year during winter or on a swarm perhaps. In the UK, Bayvarol and Apistan are not so good now as varroa have grown resistant to them in many areas so you may find that you will need to use another treatment if resistance starts to be a problem.

 

In the UK, most beekeepers use mesh bases all year.

In NZ there are a lot of places where it doesn't get cool enough for a brood break, some of mine do but some of them have brood all year round.

 

Apivar and Bayvarol work very well in NZ still and are as close to a sure thing as you can get for varroa treatments if you use the right amount and put it in the centre of the brood nest.

 

I wouldn't recommend oxalic to a beginner in NZ.