Bayvarol

[Alastair 7332]

26 minutes ago, Philbee said:

 there are Hives out there being managed with little or no treatments and among those treatment free Beeks there are some that have high loses and others that have only modest loses.

 

Other than Roy, who are these no treatment beekeepers who only have modest losses?

[Philbee 4606]

23 minutes ago, jamesc said:

Hmmmm ..... I see a new enterprise for you Phil  ..... I'd be interested in buying some queens from you and introduce a new line into our closed operation.

James, my queens were generally well received but IMO the only special qualities they had were due to being bred on good forage in large mating Nucs full of Bees.
 

3 minutes ago, Alastair said:

 

Other than Roy, who are these no treatment beekeepers who only have modest losses?

One that I have in mind is one that would not want to be named to you Alistair because you have given him a very hard time in the past. 

[kaihoka 2677]

3 minutes ago, Philbee said:

James, my queens were generally well received but IMO the only special qualities they had were due to being bred on good forage in large mating Nucs full of Bees.
 

I have read that to produce good queen cells hives need at least  two boxes very full of bees of all types , nurse, foragers etc.

Is that always true .

 

[Trevor Gillbanks 6343]

17 minutes ago, Philbee said:

One that I have in mind is one that would not want to be named to you Alistair because you have given him a very hard time in the past. 

To be fair.  @Alastair only asked questions that the unnamed person would not answer and subsequently left the forum.

[Alastair 7332]

Thanks. Yes who gave who a hard time would be a matter of interpretation combined with personal bias of the person making the judgement.

 

Edited November 12, 2019 by Alastair

[Sailabee 756]

4 minutes ago, Trevor Gillbanks said:

To be fair.  @Alastair only asked questions that the unnamed person would not answer and subsequently left the forum.

 

The Questions Alastair asked did need asking, and answering as some were signing up to pay something like $3000 for supposed treatment free nucs, and even in those golden times was preposterous.

[Alastair 7332]

I know somebody who did actually buy one of those varroa resistant treatment free nucs, and he did pay $3,000 for it. It died of varroa a few months after he got it.

 

He didn't really have a spare 3 grand to throw away either, it hurt him.

[Philbee 4606]

17 minutes ago, Trevor Gillbanks said:

To be fair.  @Alastair only asked questions that the unnamed person would not answer and subsequently left the forum.

True, but there is another Bee Forum apparently and the person involved feels that they were victimized there.
My view is that bullying or forceful approaches need to be tempered with a degree of understanding.
Definitely works with horses which are a very sensitive but potentially highly productive animal. 

 

However this is a digression from the topic

Edited November 12, 2019 by Philbee

[Sailabee 756]

2 minutes ago, Philbee said:

True, but there is another Bee Forum apparently and the person involved feels that they were victimized there.
My view is that bullying or forceful approaches need to be tempered with a degree of understanding.
Definitely works with horses which are a very sensitive but potentially highly productive animal. 

 

I bet they felt less victimised than the poor devil who paid $3000 for a nuc because of unchallenged false claims.

[Trevor Gillbanks 6343]

2 minutes ago, Philbee said:

True, but there is another Bee Forum apparently and the person involved feels that they were victimized there.
My view is that bullying or forceful approaches need to be tempered with a degree of understanding.
Definitely works with horses which are a very sensitive but potentially highly productive animal. 

Sure.  I understand that.  However, if someone makes a claim that they can grow varroa resistant bees and then sell them for ridiculous prices then they should be prepared to answer questions and also provider a back up warranty

[Alastair 7332]

5 minutes ago, Philbee said:

True, but there is another Bee Forum apparently and the person involved feels that they were victimized there.
My view is that bullying or forceful approaches need to be tempered with a degree of understanding.

 

If you are going to make vague accusations against me Phil, be specific. 

 

Whoever bullied the guy on some other forum, was not me.

1 hour ago, Philbee said:

IMO the weak link is the Beekeeper and their management of Varroa which probably also includes the physical management of the Hives themselves. (transient Hives)

Its clear to me that the Beeks with the most clinical focus on their Varroa management also have the least Varroa and Varroa related problems.

Oh come on Phil. Really?

 

Once again we have denial, and anyone having issues with OA being bagged as a bad beekeeper.

 

I guess Phil, you would have to include Randy Oliver as a bad beekeeper? Cos the photo below is one he took of issues caused by oxalic acid in his own hives. Spotty brood. Just, he is honest enough to admit it and discuss it in public. Like myself and some others.

 

But clearly, we are all liars right?

 

 

.

Anyhow, I am off to take bee samples today, for testing by DNature. Once the reults are in i'll publish them on the OA thread so you can explain the relevancy Phil.

[Philbee 4606]

@Alastair The reference to Beekeepers being the weak link has nothing to do with my position on  OA/GL
Im sure if you read the post again it will be clear that the comment relates to beekeepers and the Bee predicament  generally.

Im very surprised at your interpretation of the post

Edited November 12, 2019 by Philbee

[Trevor Gillbanks 6343]

OK team.  Let's keep this civil.  This thread has been invaluable to a lot of people.

Let's not continue calling names and talk to each other as adults.

 

I am watching and will remove posts along with give warnings.

 

[Philbee 4606]

5 hours ago, Alastair said:

I guess Phil, you would have to include Randy Oliver as a bad beekeeper? Cos the photo below is one he took of issues caused by oxalic acid in his own hives. Spotty brood. Just, he is honest enough to admit it and discuss it in public. Like myself and some others.

This has been discussed in public on the forum already and the opinion of an experienced  Beek expressed.

This Beek has observed OA Hives to the extent of approx 6000 Hive years and by next spring that will be 9000 /Hive/ years, in NZ.

This is a huge sample and their opinion has weight IMO.

However, this is but another digression from the topic.

 

 

 

 

 

 

My own experience is a mere 1000 Hive years

Edited November 13, 2019 by Philbee

[Alastair 7332]

I didn't see the discussion, but even if I did it's beside the point. Someone cannot make a pronouncement from on high, and that's it, gospel truth, discussion over.

 

I merely posted a posted a pic taken by Randy Oliver and mentioned his observations. And am in no way disagreeing with the observations of the hugely experienced beekeeper. In return I would hope that nobody is disagreeing with my own observations. What I am seeing is what I am seeing.

 

If there is a difference between one persons observations, and another persons observations, I would like to know why. IE, I am hoping to learn. But there's a thing about beekeeping. It is local. One persons observations may not be universal truth, across the entire beekeeping world. Anyone claiming they are, has much to learn.

 

I'm also rather surprised Phil that you have made several more posts, but have not included in them a retraction to your implication that I have been bullying someone on another forum. While I wasn't named, anyone reading the post would know that i am the intended target. I found the implication rather insulting. 

Edited November 13, 2019 by Alastair

[Gino de Graaf 712]

12 minutes ago, Philbee said:

This has been discussed in public on the forum already and the opinion of an experienced  Beek expressed.

This Beek has observed OA Hives to the extent of approx 6000 Hive years and by next spring that will be 9000 /Hive/ years, in NZ.

This is a huge sample and their opinion has weight IMO.

However, this is but another digression from the topic.

 

 

 

 

 

 

My own experience is a mere 1000 Hive years

Yes, one guy in one area. Can't really infer success looking at one operator, no matter the size. Oxalic treatment can make hives sick, considering all factors. 

Horses for courses.

[M4tt 4901]

2 minutes ago, Gino de Graaf said:

Yes, one guy in one area.

Too true 

 

I have four apiaries , hive numbers ranging from 2 to 9 at the moment .

They are contained with in a 3 km radius and you would think the bees have access to the same forage . 
Well, the most certainly don’t . Year in year out , there are vast differences in performance, which also affects mite numbers affecting them and their ability to withstand mites long and short term . 
 

The Main difference is forage 

[CraBee 1556]

Ha ha, you two crack me up with your debates, we'll go full circle soon and be back to candy v sugar syrup 🙂

[Alastair 7332]

Oh i think somebody has wised up a bit since arguing for candy LOL 😄

 

9 minutes ago, M4tt said:

Too true 

 

I have four apiaries , hive numbers ranging from 2 to 9 at the moment .

They are contained with in a 3 km radius and you would think the bees have access to the same forage . 
Well, the most certainly don’t . Year in year out , there are vast differences in performance, which also affects mite numbers affecting them and their ability to withstand mites long and short term . 
 

The Main difference is forage 

 

Very true Matt. Coming to Auckland was an interesting experience for me. My first commercial beekeeping job was on the Canterbury plains. You put bees in one place, they will do about the same as bees in another place.

 

But in Auckland, with our rolling hill country, patches of bush, areas of green desert lifestyle blocks, etc, a site can be awesome, and one 2 km's away can be a disaster. Excellent place to learn the importance of location.

Edited November 13, 2019 by Alastair

[jamesc 3471]

Dunno what the heck you guys are bitching about .... what the heck is a hive year ?

8 hours ago, Alastair said:

 

If you are going to make vague accusations against me Phil, be specific. 

 

Whoever bullied the guy on some other forum, was not me.

Oh come on Phil. Really?

 

Once again we have denial, and anyone having issues with OA being bagged as a bad beekeeper.

 

I guess Phil, you would have to include Randy Oliver as a bad beekeeper? Cos the photo below is one he took of issues caused by oxalic acid in his own hives. Spotty brood. Just, he is honest enough to admit it and discuss it in public. Like myself and some others.

 

But clearly, we are all liars right?

 

 

.

Anyhow, I am off to take bee samples today, for testing by DNature. Once the reults are in i'll publish them on the OA thread so you can explain the relevancy Phil.

That looks crappy ..... where's the kai Bro ?

[Gino de Graaf 712]

14 minutes ago, jamesc said:

Dunno what the heck you guys are bitching about .... what the heck is a hive year ?

That looks crappy ..... where's the kai Bro ?

James, that's your mantra 'wheres the Kai bro'

[jamesc 3471]

14 minutes ago, Gino de Graaf said:

James, that's your mantra 'wheres the Kai bro'

Indeed ..... bees at this time of year should have honey or syrup packed in around the brood.   If I was pulling frames like this out of the brood I'd be crapping bricks they are so close to starvation ...... eleven months of care and they die on the cusp of the honey flow . What a waste.

This was the last yard we worked today ..... Fat.

PS ..... These bees had Apitraz treatments.  Not a mite in sight !

[Philbee 4606]

3 hours ago, Alastair said:

I'm also rather surprised Phil that you have made several more posts, but have not included in them a retraction to your implication that I have been bullying someone on another forum. While I wasn't named, anyone reading the post would know that i am the intended target. I found the implication rather insulting.

Alastair, my comment about Bullying and or a forceful approach was a general indication of my position not a specific accusation of anything.
The subject happens to be topical in our house at the moment as we have not long ago listened to a Headmasters speech on "Banter"which is apparently a term that is now used to describe a wide range of exchanges where through intention or otherwise someone feels victimized.

 

Edited November 13, 2019 by Philbee

[Alastair 7332]

Yeah, I felt victimised. I was certainly the intended target.

 

Some people think where there is smoke there is fire so if I get accused of stuff on the internet, maybe there is some truth to it.

 

 

Edited November 13, 2019 by Alastair

[Philbee 4606]

2 minutes ago, Alastair said:

Yeah. I felt victimised.

 

Some people think where there is smoke there is fire so if I get accused of stuff on the internet, maybe there is some truth to it.

 

 

Many years ago someone and I cant remember who, suggested to me that taking offense can be considered offensive.
Ironically I have given this advice to the other person concerned here.
 

I go out of my way to avoid taking offence and believe my life is much better for it.

One very interesting point though
The person Im referring to has just emailed me and said the he has never sold a nuc for $3000

Lol, wow, so can anyone remember the persons Handle