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As I mentioned in a previous post, I was told that MPI were trying to encourage a well known breeder to attempt some more semen imports. That was 2 or 3 years ago so don't know if they are still agreeable. The breeder declined due to the flack he copped from his first imports. He didn't want to face that again so the opportunity for improved genetics was lost.

Wonder why this was not offered to other breeders.

 

And the way I see it there will be people for and against everything you do. You cannot please everyone every time.

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I see that the link to the submissions on the Risk Analysis(RA) for the Importation of Carnica semen from Germany and Austria was posted on this Forum.   Remember first that this was 2003, but it does

This image is from 2005 when I was at the F3 stage with the carnica semen importations.  This Queen is 87.5% carnica, and is sort of the bee I am headed back to with our new Kiwi Cross population that

Local selection of local bees leads to greater production, less costs, less losses and helps to retain genetic diversity and genetic improvements that have been bred by local beekeepers for generation

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All I want is bees which can live without treatment for varroa, and all the other good qualities our bees have at the moment. I don't care if we develop it in nz or if we get it form overseas. :)

I want that too.

And I don't think it's unattainable with what we already have, but I can totally understand where your coming from :)

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Well, if anyone can believe the spin in their webpage the Varroa problem is over in their neck of the woods. No treatments in most they claim.

Does anyone really believe that? Am just a tad sceptical.

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Well, if anyone can believe the spin in their webpage the Varroa problem is over in their neck of the woods. No treatments in most they claim.

Does anyone really believe that? Am just a tad sceptical.

I wouldn't believe it unless I saw it.

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All I want is bees which can live without treatment for varroa, and all the other good qualities our bees have at the moment. I don't care if we develop it in nz or if we get it form overseas. :)

but as nz history has shown, we bring in one thing to fix a problem and it creates more problems.

it very difficult to only bring in good things. especially when a lot of those problems are virus's etc and when you looking at importing from countries that have some serious bee problems.

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Semen or seamen?

From what I've come to understand the viruses were only NOTICED once varroa acted as a vector and amplified the affects.

probably both :whistle:

 

they where only noticed later because we didn't have the tech to find the viruses and possible no incentive to actually go looking in the first place.

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What's the temperament of a slightly Africanised bee hahahahaha

It was meant to be a reference to Dee Lusby. I've heard it suggested that her success with treatment free bees may be in part due to Africanised bee genetics migrating up from the south.

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As I mentioned in a previous post, I was told that MPI were trying to encourage a well known breeder to attempt some more semen imports. That was 2 or 3 years ago so don't know if they are still agreeable. The breeder declined due to the flack he copped from his first imports. He didn't want to face that again so the opportunity for improved genetics was lost.

 

so if it wasn't for all those anti carni beekeepers we would have that great super resistant breed now?

yeah, right!

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a bit of a dejavue here. this has alll been dicussed 100ds of times.

i believe that from what we know the riks outwheigh the benefits at this stage.

but since we get most problems anyway even without active genetic imports i believe it's worth while to work out how benefits could be maximised and risks minimised.

some impotant points are that come to mind:

 

caranteen island:

do we have somewhere really save where we could park up an imported strain for a while bevor bringing it in.

 

if semen is almost as riky as fertilised eggs, wouldn't it make more sense to import the total genetics instead trying to recreate a complex trade through semen import.

 

how would we look after this imported genetic/trade?

a group of 30 people/scientists and 1000 bee hives minimum would be neccesary IMO.

 

we would be well advised to establish selection and breeding techniks well before the import.

once we have those in place we probably come to the conclusion that the import is secondary, the thechnik is the road to succsess. can we do it? can we aford it?

if nz can win the americas cup it can do anything.

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f semen is almost as riky as fertilised eggs, wouldn't it make more sense to import the total genetics instead trying to recreate a complex trade through semen import.

i think seman has the advantage of being able to be stored (tho i'm not up on the play on how thats done).

the problem with testing is there is always a lag between sample arriving and results received.

the other question is how well can the test for all the known virus etc @JohnF

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i think seman has the advantage of being able to be stored (tho i'm not up on the play on how thats done).

the problem with testing is there is always a lag between sample arriving and results received.

the other question is how well can the test for all the known virus etc @JohnF

I think cryogenics, that's what they do with bull semen.

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i think seman has the advantage of being able to be stored (tho i'm not up on the play on how thats done).

the problem with testing is there is always a lag between sample arriving and results received.

the other question is how well can the test for all the known virus etc @JohnF

 

There are now methods that can be used where essentially *everything* in the sample would be sequenced ('next generation sequencing' or 'deep sequencing'). Such methods have been used on bees to discover new viruses and means we don't need any prior knowledge about what may or may not be in the sample.

The alternative would be to test for e.g. list of viruses and pathogens . . . and then a new virus like Moku virus pops up!

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There are now methods that can be used where essentially *everything* in the sample would be sequenced ('next generation sequencing' or 'deep sequencing'). Such methods have been used on bees to discover new viruses and means we don't need any prior knowledge about what may or may not be in the sample.

Why not use something like that to bring in some proven VSH semen or even survivor stock. Maybe even buckfast genetics can be brought in to improve our bee stock.

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People talk about Italian bees like they are all the same which they are not. I don't know how much variation there is in New Zealand carniolans but I do know they are completely different from the ones I saw in Norway. I have also seen buckfast bees which are essentially a stabilised hybrid in other words what we have in New Zealand already. There is no doubt that importation of bees also led to the importation of disease with the most recent case being chalk brood which was brought in with the illegal importation of European queens into the tepuke area.

It fascinates me how people believe that the grass is always greener when it has been shown time and time again that locally bred and acclimated stock do better. Having said all that I would support the very careful introduction of genetics if they could be proven to be 100% resistant in our conditions which is quite different from other parts of the world. When varoa first got here I made tentative inquiries with MPI about the importation of resistant bees. I'm paraphrasing here but basically what I was told was that they were very unhappy that beekeepers had taken legal action to stop the importation of foreign honey and therefore we could whistle in the wind. The other problem with importation is that most resistant stock seem to have some Africanised genes which would be an absolute disaster as they very quickly rise to the top and dominate.

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I think you're referring to @Otto 's work on the CSD gene work to show the genetic diversity of NZ bees? The work showed that there was plenty of genetic diversity in NZ bee populations but various genotypes existed in different areas.

no i think it came after that. it followed on from that work but i think its the same lab that did it.

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