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BeeGirl

Farmer's Market Honey

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I have often wondered if a smaller beek could work out agreement with an RMP beek/extracting (own) for use of the facilities and whether or not the RMP requirement (at the facility) would cover the smaller beek particularly if the larger process line was not used (uncapper perhaps but not all) e.g. a smaller extractor and filter/pump to foodsafe containers rather than the tank? Pretty much like home extraction but in the RMP premises? No doubt the lower level of processing/plant use would have to be approved as part & parcel of the RMP or could it be considered to fall under the Food Act?? Surely if the premised were RMP ok then it would at least exceed the Food Act requirements?

Edited by Guest

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@Pinnacle no link that I am aware of.. in the first instance I would contact your local council to see what they require. Also look online for the MPI Scope of Operations. I had to complete this and give it to Council.. looks like a scary document but quite simple as you only need the info pertaining to NP1

Thanks @Jilly i thought a simple link would be too easy, but I'm always hopeful...

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Weird thing about this is that in the USA, which is reputed to be a litigious society, small beekeepers are allowed to extract and sell their honey with NO legal requirements on them at all. They just extract in their garage, bottle, and sell any way they wish.

 

As far as I know the American beekeepers can not make the demand of the whole country, so it may be a connection.

Also in America the business mentality is to make products affordable and sell a lot.

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Highest quote so far $2250+gst plus travel.

Are you sure that you told them an NP1 and not a RMP? It does seem rather steep for what you're after. The prices I've been told for an RMP aren't even that high. :eek:

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TCC are certainly not doing you any favours @ChrisM .. firstly they don't have somebody that can complete a simple NP1 audit and then want to charge you every 2 years for what ???

You are right.. reading all this I have certainly got a great deal.

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So my thinking is under an NP 1, I could have a drum of extracted honey in my kitchen and bottle it for the local markets and gate sales? As long as my kitchen is registered and approved under the Food act?

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So my thinking is under an NP 1, I could have a drum of extracted honey in my kitchen and bottle it for the local markets and gate sales? As long as my kitchen is registered and approved under the Food act?

 

yes and no. Yes to the first question. To the second question it is no, your kitchen is no longer registered there are no prescriptive rules about what your kitchen should or should not be as it used to be in the previous food act. You can paint it black if you want. (previously it had to be white apparently). But when they do the audit if your kitchen is dirty or you don't have systems in place to keep it clean, then they can make you repaint it white like always had to be the case before. Sorry that might be an average but hopefully it is the right idea. The key issue is that YOU are registered under the food act (NOT your kitchen). Others please jump in if I'm wrong.

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Ok, Joe Blogs being a typical hobbyist has two or three hives too many and has a surplus of honey. He harvests in accord

with the tutin regs, but that's the only bow to officialdom he makes. He extracts and jars and labels at home & flogs them off at his gate. What does he actually risk on first offence ?

Edited by Guest

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Ok, Joe Blogs being a typical hobbyist has two or three hives too many and has a surplus of honey. He harvests in accord

with the tutin regs, but that's the only bow to officialdom he makes. He extracts and jars and labels at home & flogs them off at his gate. What does he actually risk on first offence ?

This scenario sounds very familiar. What happens is the food police confiscate all of the honey.

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This scenario sounds very familiar. What happens is the food police confiscate all of the honey.

 

So if there is only 50kg of honey, that's it? Sounds like an advertisement for Vogel bread :rolleyes:

@yesbut are you promoting widespread civil disobedience :)

I'm not going to go there, but who exactly are the food police?

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@yesbut are you promoting widespread civil disobedience

I'm not promoting anything other than common sense. On the offchance my hives survive & produce more honey than in recent years, there's no way in heck I'm jumping through any of the abovementioned hoops to flog a few jars to neighbours.

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is it true its illegal to give honey away if it is not certified.?

like it illegal to give fish away if you do not have quota

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What? The time honoured custom of giving fish to friends and family is illegal now?

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What? The time honoured custom of giving fish to friends and family is illegal now?

I think it's getting pretty bad if you can't GIVE honey away unless you're certified. Just wondering where it's all going to stop - no more eggs from the neighbour, vegetables from a work mate, oh and I dread telling the mother in law that she can't have any more lamb roasts or chops when we do our home kill. :unsure:

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yes and no. Yes to the first question. To the second question it is no, your kitchen is no longer registered there are no prescriptive rules about what your kitchen should or should not be as it used to be in the previous food act. You can paint it black if you want. (previously it had to be white apparently). But when they do the audit if your kitchen is dirty or you don't have systems in place to keep it clean, then they can make you repaint it white like always had to be the case before. Sorry that might be an average but hopefully it is the right idea. The key issue is that YOU are registered under the food act (NOT your kitchen). Others please jump in if I'm wrong.

It would still come down to your local Council I would think. Some of the things included in my inspection were, are services easily maintained/cleaned, is there facilities to wash your hands excluding the kitchen sink, are there any pets in the vacinity..

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I think it's getting pretty bad if you can't GIVE honey away unless you're certified. Just wondering where it's all going to stop - no more eggs from the neighbour, vegetables from a work mate, oh and I dread telling the mother in law that she can't have any more lamb roasts or chops when we do our home kill. :unsure:

@BeeGirl the issue around giving away home kill had been around for a long time.. everybody just ignored it!!!

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the issue around giving away home kill had been around for a long time.. everybody just ignored it!!!

Maybe the same will go with giving away honey :whistle:

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My garage(very clean and tidy however it has concrete floor) is in the house and there is one door between it and the kitchen(I do not have to go out when I want something from the garage). I have a toilet 1m from the kitchen with hand washing access. The kitchen is a modern one. However the living room is in the same space as the kitchen.

How can I get the paper work done for such a set-up? Is it worth to start with it?

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What? The time honoured custom of giving fish to friends and family is illegal now?

That's what MAF guy told me years ago.

It is also illegal to have fish in freezer in undated bags .

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It would still come down to your local Council I would think. Some of the things included in my inspection were, are services easily maintained/cleaned, is there facilities to wash your hands excluding the kitchen sink, are there any pets in the vacinity..

I spoke to local council rep here today in Kawerau,have been referred to Whakatane council food inspectors now.I will continue with that apopo.

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I spoke to local council rep here today in Kawerau,have been referred to Whakatane council food inspectors now.I will continue with that apopo.

Similarly I am in contact with Hutt City Council regards verification for wairarapa.

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I've received another reply from a company on the MPI website verifier list this time for only $400 with a very nice email too. South Island based but visits Tauranga. This half previous estimates.

 

So a home beekeeper with two hives might produce 60kg of honey per year. That is a 120kg for two years. The fee from council $280 plus $400 implies that cost is $5.66/kg

Still waiting on more responses, so we'll see.

 

There is that scheme around where you harvest your honey in a bucket and they buy from you. Grant Engels, revolutionary beekeeping. This does I think avoid the NP1 issue, and though the price paid for the honey is less, it does avoid all extraction and regulatory expense (?). If it gives $5/kg less then it is an improvement on above.

 

As a crush and strain extractor (10 litre holed bucket, in a sieve that fits into a 20 litre bucket that has a honey gate fitted) the volumes of honey I create are small, but appropriate to what I might consume. But I must say I've always like the idea of a paradise wax press and to rent it out at $50 per day to others to try to recover costs. It would take 100 extractions to recover $5k cost of a 50kg/hr machine. If it was used for 50kg of honey, that is $1/kg extraction cost. Used over a whole day much less. Using a water blaster for clean up is there any reason that wouldn't work? I've never seen these machines like the P50 sold second hand. Are they that good, or does nobody use them? Is this a bad idea that would not be popular at the home bk level? At this level of bkg we use and want all the wax we can get..

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That's an affordable price @ChrisM

compared to some others quoted.I spoke to Whakatane rep and he has suggested I do as much work possible ,maybe even use of photos showing the designated area,processes and equipment to help towards reducing the cost of verification and audit process inspection.

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I've received another reply from a company on the MPI website verifier list this time for only $400 with a very nice email too. South Island based but visits Tauranga. This half previous estimates.

 

So a home beekeeper with two hives might produce 60kg of honey per year. That is a 120kg for two years. The fee from council $280 plus $400 implies that cost is $5.66/kg

Isn't verification a one-off cost? You can't just divide it by the kgs of honey for a single harvest. Edited by Guest

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