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NZBF Using MAQS and understanding the consequences/side effects

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After some advice...I am using MAQS for the first time - one of my single depth boxes with a super on it has got me a bit puzzled as to what's going on...

 

I put the MAQS into my hives yesterday. Today when I went for a check I find that one of my single depth with 1x super has the front and some of the sides totally covered in bees and quite thick in places too. I am running a hive doctor base and have the boxes behind the lugs so as to reduce the entrance and try prevent robbing that I saw happen on one of my other hives a week ago. The bees didn't appear to be fighting - rather just sitting there in a big mass. It was almost like a swarm had landed on the front of the hive. I checked all my other hives in the apiary to make sure that it wasn't one of those colonies but they were all fine. When I opened the hive to see what was going on it looked like most of the bees on the outside were from that very hive as it was much reduced in numbers and it was a strong single box colony. I did my best to get as many of the bees as I could back into the boxes but I was left with a reasonable size clump by the entrance. They were a bit frenzied by this stage but not fighting or rushing into the hive - more just sitting there not going in. None of the bees that I put back in seemed to be rushing back out the entrance...

Couldn't see any obvious signs of robbing when I went into the hive but it may have been early stages if that's what was going on???

Does anyone have experience with MAQS that can provide some advice or suggestions on what is going on here?

I know that the colony expands when MAQS is put in and I've seen it on a mate's hives, but nothing like this. Not a super hot day but very humid...however none of my other hives did this...

 

Also one of my other hives the MAQS I put in killed the queen overnight...found her dead at the bottom of the hive when I was checking the other hives to see if one of them was robbing this other one out...

So far not too keen on MAQS...:(

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After some advice...I am using MAQS for the first time - one of my single depth boxes with a super on it has got me a bit puzzled as to what's going on...

 

I put the MAQS into my hives yesterday. Today when I went for a check I find that one of my single depth with 1x super has the front and some of the sides totally covered in bees and quite thick in places too. I am running a hive doctor base and have the boxes behind the lugs so as to reduce the entrance and try prevent robbing that I saw happen on one of my other hives a week ago. The bees didn't appear to be fighting - rather just sitting there in a big mass. It was almost like a swarm had landed on the front of the hive. I checked all my other hives in the apiary to make sure that it wasn't one of those colonies but they were all fine. When I opened the hive to see what was going on it looked like most of the bees on the outside were from that very hive as it was much reduced in numbers and it was a strong single box colony. I did my best to get as many of the bees as I could back into the boxes but I was left with a reasonable size clump by the entrance. They were a bit frenzied by this stage but not fighting or rushing into the hive - more just sitting there not going in. None of the bees that I put back in seemed to be rushing back out the entrance...

Couldn't see any obvious signs of robbing when I went into the hive but it may have been early stages if that's what was going on???

Does anyone have experience with MAQS that can provide some advice or suggestions on what is going on here?

I know that the colony expands when MAQS is put in and I've seen it on a mate's hives, but nothing like this. Not a super hot day but very humid...however none of my other hives did this...

 

Also one of my other hives the MAQS I put in killed the queen overnight...found her dead at the bottom of the hive when I was checking the other hives to see if one of them was robbing this other one out...

So far not too keen on MAQS...:(

When you had the hive apart did you clean the burr comb from the top of the brood box frames.

If there is a build up of burr comb left on the top of the brood box and you put any sort of absorbent treatment on, the bottom bars of the frames in the super can squash down hard on the treatment and press liquid out.

I dont use MAQS but with other similar treatments I use this is a consideration.

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When you had the hive apart did you clean the burr comb from the top of the brood box frames.

If there is a build up of burr comb left on the top of the brood box and you put any sort of absorbent treatment on, the bottom bars of the frames in the super can squash down hard on the treatment and press liquid out.

I dont use MAQS but with other similar treatments I use this is a consideration.

Thanks Philbee. Yes I took particular care to do that for the reason that if the frames sit high once the treatment is in you can't get the hive mat on...thanks for your response though.

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After some advice...I am using MAQS for the first time - one of my single depth boxes with a super on it has got me a bit puzzled as to what's going on...

 

I put the MAQS into my hives yesterday. Today when I went for a check I find that one of my single depth with 1x super has the front and some of the sides totally covered in bees and quite thick in places too. I am running a hive doctor base and have the boxes behind the lugs so as to reduce the entrance and try prevent robbing that I saw happen on one of my other hives a week ago. The bees didn't appear to be fighting - rather just sitting there in a big mass. It was almost like a swarm had landed on the front of the hive. I checked all my other hives in the apiary to make sure that it wasn't one of those colonies but they were all fine. When I opened the hive to see what was going on it looked like most of the bees on the outside were from that very hive as it was much reduced in numbers and it was a strong single box colony. I did my best to get as many of the bees as I could back into the boxes but I was left with a reasonable size clump by the entrance. They were a bit frenzied by this stage but not fighting or rushing into the hive - more just sitting there not going in. None of the bees that I put back in seemed to be rushing back out the entrance...

Couldn't see any obvious signs of robbing when I went into the hive but it may have been early stages if that's what was going on???

Does anyone have experience with MAQS that can provide some advice or suggestions on what is going on here?

I know that the colony expands when MAQS is put in and I've seen it on a mate's hives, but nothing like this. Not a super hot day but very humid...however none of my other hives did this...

 

Also one of my other hives the MAQS I put in killed the queen overnight...found her dead at the bottom of the hive when I was checking the other hives to see if one of them was robbing this other one out...

So far not too keen on MAQS...:(

 

With my limited use of formic acid I have also had this happen on a few hives, especially if it is hot. I've found the bees go back into the hive after a few days.

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After some advice...I am using MAQS for the first time - one of my single depth boxes with a super on it has got me a bit puzzled as to what's going on...

Check the instructions again. When you put MAQS in you're supposed to open full width entrances. On the singles are you adding an empty box during treatment?

 

In my experience sometimes the bees decamp for a while. Sometimes you get a few dozen (not many) dead bees and larva. My interpretation is that sick/weak bees can't handle the treatment. If there are still drones in your area then your hive will make a new queen.

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After some advice...I am using MAQS for the first time - one of my single depth boxes with a super on it has got me a bit puzzled as to what's going on...

 

I put the MAQS into my hives yesterday. Today when I went for a check I find that one of my single depth with 1x super has the front and some of the sides totally covered in bees and quite thick in places too. I am running a hive doctor base and have the boxes behind the lugs so as to reduce the entrance and try prevent robbing that I saw happen on one of my other hives a week ago. The bees didn't appear to be fighting - rather just sitting there in a big mass. It was almost like a swarm had landed on the front of the hive. I checked all my other hives in the apiary to make sure that it wasn't one of those colonies but they were all fine. When I opened the hive to see what was going on it looked like most of the bees on the outside were from that very hive as it was much reduced in numbers and it was a strong single box colony. I did my best to get as many of the bees as I could back into the boxes but I was left with a reasonable size clump by the entrance. They were a bit frenzied by this stage but not fighting or rushing into the hive - more just sitting there not going in. None of the bees that I put back in seemed to be rushing back out the entrance...

Couldn't see any obvious signs of robbing when I went into the hive but it may have been early stages if that's what was going on???

Does anyone have experience with MAQS that can provide some advice or suggestions on what is going on here?

I know that the colony expands when MAQS is put in and I've seen it on a mate's hives, but nothing like this. Not a super hot day but very humid...however none of my other hives did this...

 

Also one of my other hives the MAQS I put in killed the queen overnight...found her dead at the bottom of the hive when I was checking the other hives to see if one of them was robbing this other one out...

So far not too keen on MAQS...:(

I've had the same thing happen on two hives in an apiary of 16. The bees went back in but in the meantime a lot of capped brood chilled and died. They bounced back pretty quickly.

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I've had the same thing happen on two hives in an apiary of 16. The bees went back in but in the meantime a lot of capped brood chilled and died. They bounced back pretty quickly.

What is your varroa treatment program.

I am interested in MAQs but I would not describe my hives as strong .

I have read a lot of posts about it and I am nervous about using them when we have had a bad season and the build up has not been quick.

I have used OA last month and I will use synthetics later

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The bees sitting out front is normal. They'll do it until the majority of the vapour has left the hive. Nothing to worry about .

You probably shouldn't be opening the hive for a week while treatment is in. You'll let the vapour out .

As for your dead queen. I can't say, but I've never had MAQS harm a queen that I know of.

As Rob said, the bees will make a new one. It's the perfect time of the year for it

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As Rob said, the bees will make a new one. It's the perfect time of the year for it

And the temperatures are perfect.

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What is your varroa treatment program.

I am interested in MAQs but I would not describe my hives as strong .

I have read a lot of posts about it and I am nervous about using them when we have had a bad season and the build up has not been quick.

I have used OA last month and I will use synthetics later

We used maq's just before we put the honey super on. Will use bayvarol as our autumn treatment. If I have any hives needing further treatment I'll use mineral oil fogging. We sample one hive on each pallet to check effectiveness of treatment or any hives that don't look quite right.

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@nikki watts - might not be the best season to ask this question, but did you notice any improved honey production using maqs prior to the flow? At the nod presentation they seemed to think this timing could boost honey production somehow.

 

I tried some at that timing and didn't really see an advantage, but then I had a pretty average honey season anyway, so might not be a representative result. Thanks

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@nikki watts - might not be the best season to ask this question, but did you notice any improved honey production using maqs prior to the flow? At the nod presentation they seemed to think this timing could boost honey production somehow.

 

I tried some at that timing and didn't really see an advantage, but then I had a pretty average honey season anyway, so might not be a representative result. Thanks

It's was a very average season so not really sure. Also, I treated all our hives so had nothing to use as comparison. I did notice that a lot of queens went off the lay for a week or so but when they started back up they went double time so it didn't set the hives back. I do think we have hives in better shape for autumn cause the varroa hasn't had a chance to build up like it would have if we had treated earlier. Will be sample testing this week so I'll see what the levels are like.

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I did notice that a lot of queens went off the lay for a week or so but when they started back up they went double time so it didn't set the hives back.

Yes. I noticed the same. I only lost 1 queen from 40 hives so i thought that was pretty good as it was a weak hive anyway.

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Thats interesting thanks.

 

I treated some early spring - just had a look back in the records and it was 1st September. These also went off the lay, but being smaller quieter hives at that stage of the season, the treatment really set them back. I reckon by maybe 3 or more weeks compared other comparable hives. These were so far behind, it actually made them pretty easy to manage through spring, as they took some time to get up to "swarming" strength and by then we were almost in the flow anyway. On the other hand, they weren't at pollination strength for most of spring. Raises some interesting possibilities for managing hives anyway.

 

I also recorded minimal queen loss - just a couple of dodgy ones that were likely on their way out anyway.

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Yes. I noticed the same. I only lost 1 queen from 40 hives so i thought that was pretty good as it was a weak hive anyway.

We also only lost a couple of queens which were not thriving anyway.

 

 

Thats interesting thanks.

 

I treated some early spring - just had a look back in the records and it was 1st September. These also went off the lay, but being smaller quieter hives at that stage of the season, the treatment really set them back. I reckon by maybe 3 or more weeks compared other comparable hives. These were so far behind, it actually made them pretty easy to manage through spring, as they took some time to get up to "swarming" strength and by then we were almost in the flow anyway. On the other hand, they weren't at pollination strength for most of spring. Raises some interesting possibilities for managing hives anyway.

 

I also recorded minimal queen loss - just a couple of dodgy ones that were likely on their way out anyway.

Sounds like we all had very similar outcomes. Our weaker ones didn't build well either, but they were probably never going to.

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First time user here of MAQS,read & watched as much as I could about the use of this and proceeded last Fri to treat my 4 bush hives with it.

Made sure HD bases were moved to forward position and other was fully open.Two hives 2 box and 2, 3 box .

I did notice on the 2 box hives same thing,bearding out front of hive the next day but gone following day.2 of the four hives had approx a cupful of dead bees out the front on sun morn,but all look busy this arvo.

Will bee pulling pads out Sat morn for inspection and assessment.

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Thanks for the feedback guys - I am checking this hive out tomorrow and removing the strips so will update on what the situation is.

Definitely some key learns from this experience and glad to hear what others have to say who have tried it.

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Sorry - slow reply - checked the hive last weekend and found the queen alive and most of the bees in the boxes. Hive looks healthy with no signs of varroa. Plenty of dead bees out the front. Removed the MAQS and all seems to be well. Key learn is that I think next time I will move the box forward on the HD base to increase the ventilation.

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The problem is the Hive Doctor bases have ventilation coming from underneath, and that kinda stuffs up the way the vapours are supposed to spread inside the hive. I had a couple of ventilated floors and the treatment didn't work on those particular hives, but worked really well in the solid floors with fully open entrances, not the Hive Doctor's discs. So my way around it is to put some corflute or similar under the hd bases (they have a little plastic bit on each side that you can clip a pest tray or corflute) and slightly raise the boxes from the floor with 2 pieces of wood or wedges, less than bee space. This way the ventilation comes from the sides, not directly from underneath, moves the fumes around in a kind of L shape, and works very very well. When Nod Apiaries did their NZ roadshow last year this was discussed over and over. Sugar shakes before treatment and after are very important too. We have used Maqs for a year in 40 hives, and haven't lost a single queen yet. Over all, I prefer it to other treatments, but it does stink. I had bees bearding after putting treatments in in almost every single hive, but they usually calm down after a couple of days.

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Yes it does have a " nasal flush" feel to it!!

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The problem is the Hive Doctor bases have ventilation coming from underneath, and that kinda stuffs up the way the vapours are supposed to spread inside the hive.

I run Hive Doctor bases on all my hives. I did not block up my bases at all. I did slide the boxes forward to the fully open positions. I treated my hives in early August and I was extremely pleased with the results. I did not have bearding on any of my hives during treatment.

It is my belief that the MAQS work fine with the partial vented floor of the Hive Doctor bases as the venting is only 9%. I cannot say with regard to a standard mesh floor.

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Likewise I also run all HD bases and I also treated with MAQs and am happy with the results. No pre or post treatment counts, but hive health is good.

 

I didn't shift them forward on their bases but left them on reduced entrances - I was worried that between the open front and vented floor I'd lose too much FA. Possibly this is why I lost a couple of queens, as I've posted elsewhere. But overall seems to work just fine and I'm happy with the results.

 

Placing the last ones this coming week hopefully, for autumn treatments.

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Likewise I also run all HD bases and I also treated with MAQs and am happy with the results. No pre or post treatment counts, but hive health is good.

 

I didn't shift them forward on their bases but left them on reduced entrances - I was worried that between the open front and vented floor I'd lose too much FA. Possibly this is why I lost a couple of queens, as I've posted elsewhere. But overall seems to work just fine and I'm happy with the results.

 

Placing the last ones this coming week hopefully, for autumn treatments.

I am planning on not moving them forward for my Autumn treatment. I am also planning on using the alternative treatment of 1 pad for 7 days then leave for 7 days then place second pad for 7 days.

I am thinking this will be more gentle on the bees and also spread the treatment over 3 weeks.

Overall I have been very pleased with MAQS.

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I quite like the 1 pad thing. I've done a few single box hives that had signs of pms or dwv with a single pad followed by apivar. The theory being that the MAQs give an immediate hit to knock out particularly phoretic mites but also some in brood, while the slower acting but longer lasting apivar then continues the control. Seems to have worked ok so far, but the proof of the pudding will be how they over winter.

 

Unfortunately one pad followed seven or fourteen days later by another one pad means a lot of additional site visits for a commercial operator. For the apiaries where I'm running MAQs only, I've stuck to two pads per hive each treatment.

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I have put the Oxalic and Glycerine pads in all my hives, when that is finished I plan on doing the double single pad treatment with MAQS. I will probably do a sugar/alcohol test before the MAQS treatments.

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