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Gino de Graaf

Alcohol Wash

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Hi all,

 

Can anyone share their experience of using the alcohol wash method?

Have researched it, Randy Oliver was very good.

 

My main question, has someone tried alternatives for alcohol- soapy water, meths, bug wash??

 

Thanks

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After its been shtrained through a loaf of white bread ...

 

:)

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After its been shtrained through a loaf of white bread ...

 

:)

Huh ?

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say it out loud

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thanks, maybe a sandwich?

 

Why strain it- after to count mites??

Do you cut the meths down, say 25% meth 75% water?

 

Versatile Products, here in Tauranga. Clear meth. 4 liters, $28.

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Sorry folks. The straining meths thru a loaf of white bread is how the street drunks used to get the purple colouring out of the meths so that it was almost drinkable.

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Sorry folks. The straining meths thru a loaf of white bread is how the street drunks used to get the purple colouring out of the meths so that it was almost drinkable.

I'm not sure which is more concerning. That you're wise in the ways of street drunks or that you know that the meths becomes almost drinkable :mask:

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I'm not sure which is more concerning. That you're wise in the ways of street drunks or that you know that the meths becomes almost drinkable :mask:

Both.

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Trevs correct not necassary just street drunks though, experimenting teenagers also, I know a few ex school colleages try this, Not Cool make you go blind. On Topic we use purple meth all the time for alchole wash we probably use 8 litres a year at a guess for 1000 hives we only test 10% say 5-6 times a year you can get about four tests out of meths before it starts turning to dark to read. Unless we do a trial on a product then we do every hive on a site, we also use icing sugar when bee numbers are low, i'm about to purchase C02 method see how that goes.

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Trevs correct not necassary just street drunks though, experimenting teenagers also, I know a few ex school colleages try this, Not Cool make you go blind. On Topic we use purple meth all the time for alchole wash we probably use 8 litres a year at a guess for 1000 hives we only test 10% say 5-6 times a year you can get about four tests out of meths before it starts turning to dark to read. Unless we do a trial on a product then we do every hive on a site, we also use icing sugar when bee numbers are low, i'm about to purchase C02 method see how that goes.

thanks Tony,

 

Do you mix the meth with water?

 

What is your method?

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thanks Tony,

 

Do you mix the meth with water?

 

What is your method?

no just straight meth, Standerd method 300 odd bees in two sided jar with mesh divider, i think i may have photos on here somewhere but heres a couple anyway.5992ebae3bef2_2013-02-2615_38_47.jpg.aa3decc291352db6e01cc31c26739d3a.jpg

5992ebae37e8e_2013-02-2615_36_55.jpg.74da78f79936ee24596b600b55cefcb7.jpg

5992ebae37e8e_2013-02-2615_36_55.jpg.74da78f79936ee24596b600b55cefcb7.jpg

5992ebae3bef2_2013-02-2615_38_47.jpg.aa3decc291352db6e01cc31c26739d3a.jpg

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Do you mix the meth with water?

No. Use it straight out of the bottle.

Same method as the sugar shake. Just use meths instead of icing sugar

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agree alcohol gives a more accurate result but depends on time of year and whether you can afford to kill bees at the time, sugar gives ok measure of whats going on, we use both methods.

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So what's the best method @Trevor Gillbanks, sugar or alcohol

agree alcohol gives a more accurate result but depends on time of year and whether you can afford to kill bees at the time, sugar gives ok measure of whats going on, we use both methods.

As @tony said.

Also. Do the sugar test and see your results. Then on those same bees do the alcohol wash. See the difference. This will tell you how effectively you are doing the sugar shake.

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Hi. I was wondering how alcohol/sugar shake works for large operations. The reason is that the mite levels can sometimes be different from one hive to another and its just risky to make a decision on treatment management based on one or to hives tested.

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Hi. I was wondering how alcohol/sugar shake works for large operations. The reason is that the mite levels can sometimes be different from one hive to another and its just risky to make a decision on treatment management based on one or to hives tested.

Test more hives.

Work out a system of doing it in a few minutes during a planned inspection of the brood box.

Secret to a good sugar shake is in letting the shook up bees rest before sprinkling the mites.

When you look at sugar coated bees in the jar its easy to see why its important to let the shaken bees rest for a few minutes because they frantically wriggle about which must help dislodge the mites

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True, that makes sense. With sugar sake. I would not do it with alcohol. Just to many killed bees. On the other hand the operations i worked in didnt test. Just treat by default. I gues its ok if your not worried about chemical build up and cost of apistan/hive.

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chemical build up and cost of apistan

I'd have thought if one was worried about contamination Apistan wouldn't be on the to use list.

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Hi. I was wondering how alcohol/sugar shake works for large operations. The reason is that the mite levels can sometimes be different from one hive to another and its just risky to make a decision on treatment management based on one or to hives tested.

I think its been covered somewhere on this forum already but for sake of trying to find it, I'll try and explain. firstly a bit of history for us so you can see how its evolved, 10-15 years ago all our mite counting was done on all hives with natural mite fall trays under mesh floors we tested all hives (600-700 hives then) at certian times of the year Big Job but it built the base for understanding mites.

Now we run about 1000 hives and about 30 odd sites, obviously testing every hive is impractical and if you tryed you would not do it for long so its not going to hapen but what we learnt is you also don't need to test all. We test 10% of every site we visit ramdomly selected hives this came about from listening to others personal experince this forum and must thank @Dave Black also for some good reasearch papers. Testing 10% of hives is quite achivable, I will for this quick excersise say we have sites of 40 (which we do have some) so thats 4 hives to test. So lets use 5 sites for this A,B,C,D,E. using alcohol wash method on 300 bees We use 1/2 cup its close enough.

Site A: test results, hive 1= 5mites, 2=6mites, 3=2mites, 4=3mites. So 16 mites counted total you divide this by 3 to give you a percentage (example hive 4= 3 mites per 300 bees 3/3 =1mite per 100 bees, or 1% infestation) so 16 diveded buy 3= 5.3 total you then divide that buy the 4 samples to give you a site average which = 1.3% average mites per site.

Site B: 1=4, 2=8, 3=4, 4=7. so total 23 / 3= 7.6%. 7.6 / 4 = 1.9 %avg/site.

Site C: Total 55 mites counted / 3 = 18.3%, 18.3 / 4 samples =4.5%

Site D: 6% site avg.

Site E: .5% site avg.

So from that you can start to see what each site is doing, yes you may miss some high mite hives by the random selection but the site will let you know whats going on, on average. What do you do with information well we write it all down on a borad and you can quickly see whats going on so in our example you can see Site D is up there we would probably treat this site imediatly, Site C you know you need to be rechecking soon site E well you probably dont need to worry for awhile recheck next visit and its quite possible this site may not need to be treated at all, if you test every visit you soon see whats trending, and as you randomly test each visit you start to cover a bigger area of your hives giving you a fairly acurate picture of whats going on.

I hope this is clear to understand how we do it. obviously this is not the full picture of the season but its hopefully shows how we can manage mites and make decision on a commercial level. And one last thing to add just because it happened the other day we tested one hive at a site that had 6% infestation and signs of DWV, but every other test was around 1%, we treated that hive on the spot but not the site that hive bought the site average up so we know something is going on there and it will be, at this stage one site to keep eye on.

Just for the record this is how I do things others may do it diferently not saying my way is right i have been doing this for a number of years now and it works for me.

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As @tony says, a lot about this already, for instance; [23 Feb 2013] Field Day - NBA Auckland/Waikato Branches 23 February 2013 (Thames, New Zealand)

 

Alcohol and detergents both more accurate than powdered sugar. I suggest if you aren't killing some bees when sugar shaking you aren't doing it properly.

 

I'm using the waste from a small distilling operation, swapped for a bit of honey. (Comes with the occasional bottle that isn't 'waste'!) :)

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Good to see you stil at it Dave i also have to thank you again for your plum Liqueur recipe we made quite a bit last season and it was thoughly enjoyed by the family over christmas/new year, it was even more of a bonus while cleaning up the basement we found 3 large vessels we had forgot about was two years old fine vintage it is. This season the plums are heavy and lots of them it will be a good bottling season. (y)

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Question: with the meths/alcohol wash,do u need to vigorously shake bees while in the container or is swirling them around in the liquid enough?

IMG_20170211_132647.jpg.171be42b8645acd09b6b0c6b0dcb6af7.jpg

And is jus covering the bees enough liquid? You can see my container above.

IMG_20170211_132647.jpg.171be42b8645acd09b6b0c6b0dcb6af7.jpg

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Good shake mate, you should almost get some bee parts come though, not to much that all bee parts come though and you cant count but you want to see some bee debre, I would say you need a bigger container give you some shaking room. Add enough meth to cover bees well, we probably add enough to cover bees twice, we reuse probably four times then discard.

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