Jump to content
ikwezinz

Oxalic and glycerine

Recommended Posts

3 hours ago, M4tt said:

We regularly flush our water bore with Bore Cleaner which is oxalic acid, primarily to clean out the iron bacteria that grows a sludge and blocks the submersible pump.

The remnants are flushed out onto the grass until it runs clear before reconnecting to the water supply.

There are no ill effects on the grass and it kills no earth worms, which suggests it may be diluted to a point that is not toxic 

Water may be the key
I can assure you though that OA/GL at 35% will destroy soil if the soil is saturated with the mix.
light topical doses  will burn grass off

Edited by Trevor Gillbanks
spelling
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I wonder how long for , and if rain dilutes enough for it to recover 

Edited by M4tt
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, M4tt said:

I wonder how long for , and if rain dilutes enough for it to recover 

Once the soil is destroyed and the ph falls the soil doesn't recover for a very long time

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

"Environmental Assessment Environmental Fate EPA relied on data available in the scientific literature to assess the environmental fate and transport of oxalic acid used as a pesticide. Oxalic acid occurs widely in nature--it is present in the tissues of many plants and algae, serving both to excrete and store calcium. In water, its negative ion forms complexes with a number of metal ions; and oxalic acid is immobilized as a result of this formation of complexes. Both aerobic and anaerobic conditions biodegrade oxalic acid in less than one day"

 

https://archive.epa.gov/pesticides/reregistration/web/pdf/4070fact.pdf

  • Like 2
  • Thanks 1
  • Good Info 1
  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, yesbut said:

 

"Environmental Assessment Environmental Fate EPA relied on data available in the scientific literature to assess the environmental fate and transport of oxalic acid used as a pesticide. Oxalic acid occurs widely in nature--it is present in the tissues of many plants and algae, serving both to excrete and store calcium. In water, its negative ion forms complexes with a number of metal ions; and oxalic acid is immobilized as a result of this formation of complexes. Both aerobic and anaerobic conditions biodegrade oxalic acid in less than one day"

 

https://archive.epa.gov/pesticides/reregistration/web/pdf/4070fact.pdf

That is very good news and can only add to the positives of using the stuff if it doesn’t build up as a toxin in the environment 

  • Agree 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, yesbut said:

 

"Environmental Assessment Environmental Fate EPA relied on data available in the scientific literature to assess the environmental fate and transport of oxalic acid used as a pesticide. Oxalic acid occurs widely in nature--it is present in the tissues of many plants and algae, serving both to excrete and store calcium. In water, its negative ion forms complexes with a number of metal ions; and oxalic acid is immobilized as a result of this formation of complexes. Both aerobic and anaerobic conditions biodegrade oxalic acid in less than one day"

 

https://archive.epa.gov/pesticides/reregistration/web/pdf/4070fact.pdf

So its like 1080 then, breaks down very quickly in the environment.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, Philbee said:

Once the soil is destroyed and the ph falls the soil doesn't recover for a very long time

Just like my dog’s piss

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Go Phill, (just posted this so it keeps the pages going aim to hit page 100 by Christmas)

 

  • Like 1
  • Haha 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Dennis Crowley said:

Go Phill, (just posted this so it keeps the pages going aim to hit page 100 by Christmas)

 

Lol

Theres a member who is going to summarize it for everyone so why not make him work for his fame

  • Haha 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Philbee said:

Lol

Theres a member who is going to summarize it for everyone so why not make him work for his fame

Whose that ? 

@yesbut ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 minutes ago, kaihoka said:

Whose that ? 

@yesbut ?

You are so funny Kaihoka, Id had already decided that if anyone asked who, Id say Yesbut

However no not the pink cat he's far too busy
One of the other regular Hobbyists and Im sure he'll share his masterpiece 

  • Haha 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ive walked back one of my earlier statements.
I had suggested that Beeks use the Double row Staples as a general staple and the EP's as a backup for hygienic Hives only
This was largely  because of the degree of difficulty in making EP's

The EP is still difficult to make but the machine will now run at 7.5hrs a day actual up time (25% down time) at 25 Staples a minute actual production.
This means that the EP will now be considered the base product.
Double row will continue to be available at a lower price than the EP but the gap will continue to close.
It would be nice to see more Beeks getting the Narrow EP,s (EPN) as I feel they have a lot to offer.

 

The single stitch Staple is only made by special request but Hobbyist will likely continue with this type as it is accessible.

There is one large outfit who stipulate single stitch but I suspect they will change over at some time soon. 
This logic is based on the theory that a chewed staple has been significantly interacted with by the Bees.

Not something I consider relevant but someone's belief none the less 

Edited by Philbee
  • Good Info 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

From that Philbee I read that you believe it’s the contact with the staple rather than the chewing of it that spreads the ingredient around.

we will be ordering the narrow staples in the new year 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, frazzledfozzle said:

From that Philbee I read that you believe it’s the contact with the staple rather than the chewing of it that spreads the ingredient around.

we will be ordering the narrow staples in the new year 

Yes Frazzel that is exactly what I think.

A very recent email from a world renowned expert agrees that there is probably no direct link between chewing and efficacy.

When making claims like this Im reluctant to bring names into a public discussion.

  • Like 1
  • Good Info 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, Philbee said:

Yes Frazzel that is exactly what I think.

A very recent email from a world renowned expert agrees that there is probably no direct link between chewing and efficacy.

When making claims like this Im reluctant to bring names into a public discussion.

You live & learn I didn't know trump was a beek !

  • Haha 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, yesbut said:

You live & learn I didn't know trump was a beek !

If he was, do you think his bees would still be alive , and would you take notice 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 minutes ago, yesbut said:

You live & learn I didn't know trump was a beek !

Ok, so its out now.
Trump is my uncle and he runs a large beekeeping operation in Cuba.
The Caravan was a bunch of disgruntled employees wanting to Know when they were getting their Shipment of Staples

  • Haha 5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, M4tt said:

If he was, do you think his bees would still be alive , and would you take notice 

He would likely condemn the bees since they are Italian, being inferior to American worker bees.  While at the same time employing their services since they are cheap labour. 

  • Agree 2
  • Haha 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Rainy Sundays are great days to experiment and generally do the things that you cant do on a real work day.
So today I put some of these through the Machine for a test run.
 

options.jpg

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@Philbee did you have to play with the tension much sewing that medium .

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

18 hours ago, Philbee said:

Ive walked back one of my earlier statements.
I had suggested that Beeks use the Double row Staples as a general staple and the EP's as a backup for hygienic Hives only
This was largely  because of the degree of difficulty in making EP's

The EP is still difficult to make but the machine will now run at 7.5hrs a day actual up time (25% down time) at 25 Staples a minute actual production.
This means that the EP will now be considered the base product.
Double row will continue to be available at a lower price than the EP but the gap will continue to close.
It would be nice to see more Beeks getting the Narrow EP,s (EPN) as I feel they have a lot to offer. 

 

The single stitch Staple is only made by special request but Hobbyist will likely continue with this type as it is accessible.

There is one large outfit who stipulate single stitch but I suspect they will change over at some time soon. 
This logic is based on the theory that a chewed staple has been significantly interacted with by the Bees.

Not something I consider relevant but someone's belief none the less 

Hi Philbee

Attempting to summarize and interested if this is correct in your view?

The bees 'chewing' the OA-G strips are actually gnawing or snipping the tape (as with newspaper) and letting the most the tape residue fall rather than chewing and ingesting it. So rather than having the bees cut entirely through the tape near the top, and then having much of the active tape fall out of the brood area, the stitching is a device to prevent cutting through and waste of the tape. This effectively improves treatment application consistency and predictability as more hives will have equivalent OA dose in proximity to the brood area for about the same length of time, even the hives that quickly remove foreign objects. As the 'skin' contact on the bees is the delivery path to the mites having the OA tape as a foreign object in the hive encourages house bees to gnaw at it in an effort to remove the 'problem' and effectively increases the number of bees in contact with the OA compared to just having passing bees brushing against the tape.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 hours ago, frazzledfozzle said:

From that Philbee I read that you believe it’s the contact with the staple rather than the chewing of it that spreads the ingredient around.

we will be ordering the narrow staples in the new year 

so speaking of the narrow staples... what size were they again? would you do more of them in a box to make up for having less width?

I cant remember reading much about them yet

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, Philbee said:

Rainy Sundays are great days to experiment and generally do the things that you cant do on a real work day.
So today I put some of these through the Machine for a test run.
 

options.jpg

 

I wonder if all that cotton is going to cause birds nests and massive tangles inside the hive? My single thread staples leave cotton everywhere...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Borage said:

 

Hi Philbee

Attempting to summarize and interested if this is correct in your view?

The bees 'chewing' the OA-G strips are actually gnawing or snipping the tape (as with newspaper) and letting the most the tape residue fall rather than chewing and ingesting it. So rather than having the bees cut entirely through the tape near the top, and then having much of the active tape fall out of the brood area, the stitching is a device to prevent cutting through and waste of the tape. This effectively improves treatment application consistency and predictability as more hives will have equivalent OA dose in proximity to the brood area for about the same length of time, even the hives that quickly remove foreign objects. As the 'skin' contact on the bees is the delivery path to the mites having the OA tape as a foreign object in the hive encourages house bees to gnaw at it in an effort to remove the 'problem' and effectively increases the number of bees in contact with the OA compared to just having passing bees brushing against the tape.

 

Borage this reads very much like a Patent application?
Its over my head really but what I can say is that one of the claims with regard the stitch is that the stitch lines acts as a physical barrier to chewing.

The Bees tend to chew in from the edge toward the center
If they encounter a line of thread it will slow them down allowing the Tape to remain in the hive for a longer period.
Also, bees dont eat with their chewing equipment
 

 

Edited by Philbee

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, CHCHPaul said:

 

I wonder if all that cotton is going to cause birds nests and massive tangles inside the hive? My single thread staples leave cotton everywhere...

Short answer no.
The reason your single line Staples have cotton everywhere is because the Bees are able to undermine the cotton 100% of the time in a relatively short period of time.
As the Staple has become tougher it has remained intact for much longer and the Bees simply cant divide and conquer them in the same way as the single or Double rows of stitch have allowed.

Its been a process of stepping up.
This one is just one for the armory should it be required 

  • Good Info 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×
×
  • Create New...