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Oxalic and glycerine

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1 hour ago, Philbee said:

Beeks within this forum are fortunate in that they have access to information and support but not everyone who contacts me reads this forum

i have read every post in this thread.

but i have got a bit lost following it all .

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9 minutes ago, kaihoka said:

i have read every post in this thread.

but i have got a bit lost following it all .

Maybe some other form of treatment would be best for you

The own use rules are intended that so that Beeks can make their own treatments and to make your own treatment you must be confident in a plan and it execution.

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It’s not that hard.

Gloves and apron put them on,

GL and Oa put them in and warm them up,

Staples put them in, then take them out, then dry them out.

Final part put them in with the brood and replace the ones that get chewed. But not during the flow if possible. 

 

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2 hours ago, Philbee said:

Maybe some other form of treatment would be best for you

The own use rules are intended that so that Beeks can make their own treatments and to make your own treatment you must be confident in a plan and it execution.

@Oma has shown me the way .:14_relaxed:

Its sourcing the materials I am not so sure of .

Synthetics work fine for me now but I know that will not last and I have to get my head around using the alternatives eventually .

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10 minutes ago, kaihoka said:

@Oma has shown me the way .:14_relaxed:

Its sourcing the materials I am not so sure of .

Synthetics work fine for me now but I know that will not last and I have to get my head around using the alternatives eventually .

Well done

Staples are an opportunity, not a gift

You need to step up an grasp that opportunity which may entail some serious due diligence

   

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8 hours ago, Philbee said:

Im not sure of what you mean here Josh.
Commercial quantities IMO are say 1200 Staples  (3 pails or more)
As Ive set out in my previous post a major factor is safety

Im reluctant to make a 20 dollar sale to an enthusiastic amateur only to see them get injured.

This is a significant factor for me.

 

Beeks within this forum are fortunate in that they have access to information and support but not everyone who contacts me reads this forum

 

What I mean is hobbiests making these themselves to save a few bucks is a false economy. 

 

You provide a great product and at, IMO, a fair and reasonable price. 

 

I would never consider making my own. If you can’t afford staples, how do you afford to keep bees as a hobby. 

 

I think your your safety stance is very reasonable. And I can assure you I replicated your advice, on a hobby scale. 

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On 14/11/2018 at 1:05 PM, Philbee said:

Well done

Staples are an opportunity, not a gift

You need to step up an grasp that opportunity which may entail some serious due diligence

   

Our 3/4 hive had DIY staples 5/9 as close possible  to my interpretation of  @Philbee instructions 

There were noticeable bee losses outside the hive within 24 hrs

I noted dead emerging bees under the strips 14/9 The queen continued to lay and I reduced it down to X1 3/4

From 29/9 the hive has continued to go forward

Sugar shake on 5/10 resulted in 0 Varroa I also elevated it a full depth box higher and since then....

20/10 needed a 2nd box

16/11 The hive is full of bees, brood and bringing in Nectar and pollen. Super added today

Frame upon frame brood. As close to the corners as she can lay...avoiding the cells the wires run through 

 

25425474-37CA-44A4-BC6C-6BCD0E215F0D.thumb.jpeg.e46a0898df2f0b574b97270ae3e97074.jpeg

A94E31CD-80BA-403E-B220-CDE4F000FF04.thumb.jpeg.3a53434d5e321ffcdb08d09f56249716.jpeg

 

 

 

 

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Lovely and clean @Beefriendly! Wonder why she doesn’t like the wire - mine carry on but it does look suboptimal being the bee in a wire cell.

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@Beefriendlydid you try leaving a gap at the bottom of the wax sheet? This is how these frames were designed for to use the instinct of the bees in the favor of the beekeeper. The bees will build swarm cells into that gap when they want to build them and it make the beekeeper's life easier. This is what I miss with the plastic frames.

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5 minutes ago, Kiwi Bee said:

@Beefriendlydid you try leaving a gap at the bottom of the wax sheet? This is how these frames were designed for to use the instinct of the bees in the favor of the beekeeper. The bees will build swarm cells into that gap when they want to build them and it make the beekeeper's life easier. This is what I miss with the plastic frames.

The bees seem really happy with this queen. I’ve only a few playcups this spring in the hive. No indication of trying to swarm or supersede

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Well done @Beefriendly
The Bee loses has given more than a few a real fright and I applaud the courage of those who saw the experience through.

There are others also who gave this system a shot where others stood back and waited for others do the testing.

This is reasonable I suppose but fortune favors the bold and I dont forget the bold.

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1 hour ago, Beefriendly said:

Our 3/4 hive had DIY staples 5/9 as close possible  to my interpretation of  @Philbee instructions 

There were noticeable bee losses outside the hive within 24 hrs

I noted dead emerging bees under the strips 14/9 The queen continued to lay and I reduced it down to X1 3/4

From 29/9 the hive has continued to go forward

Sugar shake on 5/10 resulted in 0 Varroa I also elevated it a full depth box higher and since then....

20/10 needed a 2nd box

16/11 The hive is full of bees, brood and bringing in Nectar and pollen. Super added today

Frame upon frame brood. As close to the corners as she can lay...

Oops correct information, wrong photo attached ?

Try this one. 3/4 plastic framesDDCABE11-0F08-4B10-9F7F-B24C36891B5A.thumb.jpeg.fa86d5df1ab252352101f65f6f2cb1ed.jpeg

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39 minutes ago, Beefriendly said:

The bees seem really happy with this queen. I’ve only a few playcups this spring in the hive. No indication of trying to swarm or supersede

 

What I tried to say before is that the wooden frames with bees wax foundation were designed to have a gap between the wax sheet and the bottom bar of the frame.

The bees will not fully build that gap with comb so at any time in the future when they want to swarm their instinct will tell them to build the swarm cells into that gap - therefore the books tell you to check the bottom of the frames for swarm cells. Those books were written before the plastic foundation and plastic frames came into the game. With no gap there the bees will build swarm cell randomly anywhere.

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Bringing the topic back over here, I would never miss the opportunity to have 50% OA Staples in over winter.
A winter mite kill has a much higher kill value than a spring or summer kill.
This spring was a dream for me, I expanded my numbers in the previous Autumn and overwinter loses were negligible.
I didnt do any splits for replacements because there was no need.

Swarming was a bit of an issue though and I can see this being an issue every season from here on as I like these Autumn splits made from clean hives in the Autumn they winter well with real Honey and Staples on.


 

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Maybe I missed it, but I have a question regarding the new 20mm staples. 

 

Assuming you use the same OA/GLY ratio, do you;

A: use the same number of staples (but less total weight of OA/hive)

or

B: use more staples getting better spread and same total dose/hive as regular staples?

 

This is a factor I haven’t seen explained or tested. 

 

Ratio OA/Gly seems to be actively investigated, but total weight OA/hive hasn’t been yet to my knowledge. 

 

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9 minutes ago, Josh said:

Maybe I missed it, but I have a question regarding the new 20mm staples. 

 

Assuming you use the same OA/GLY ratio, do you;

A: use the same number of staples (but less total weight of OA/hive)

or

B: use more staples getting better spread and same total dose/hive as regular staples?

 

This is a factor I haven’t seen explained or tested. 

 

Ratio OA/Gly seems to be actively investigated, but total weight OA/hive hasn’t been yet to my knowledge. 

 

Lol

You must have received your Staples Josh?

First of all the idea of the narrower Staple mainly came from a need to minimize potential Brood damage.
Later on as a coincidence Randy Oliver found that 18g of OA per box at 50% solution strength worked the best in his trials.
When the Maths is done it happens that 4 narrow Staples hold 21g of OA when soaked in a 40% solution so thats close to Randy's 18g ideal.

So if I were using narrow Staples Id be inclined to use 40 or 50% OA and 4 Staples.
But I remind you, those EP Narrows I included in your pack are for you to experiment with as the designer of an own use treatment.

I have offered my opinion on how I would use them but what strength solution you use and the number per hive you use is up to you.

I will suggest that its difficult to overdose the Bees but always be mindful that treating while the Honey supers are on is not considered good practice.


 

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1 minute ago, Philbee said:

Lol

You must have received your Staples Josh?

First of all the idea of the narrower Staple mainly came from a need to minimize potential Brood damage.
Later on as a coincidence Randy Oliver found that 18g of OA per box at 50% solution strength worked the best in his trials.
When the Maths is done it happens that 4 narrow Staples hold 21g of OA when soaked in a 40% solution so thats close to Randy's 18g ideal.

So if I were using narrow Staples Id be inclined to use 40 or 50% OA and 4 Staples.
But I remind you, those EP Narrows I included in your pack are for you to experiment with as the designer of an own use treatment.

I have offered my opinion on how I would use them but what strength solution you use and the number per hive you use is up to you.

I will suggest that its difficult to overdose the Bees but always be mindful that treating while the Honey supers are on is not considered good practice.


 

I’ve got mine, I have the regular staples. They’re awesomely me, no varoa on last two shakes. I’m currently running 36%. 

 

but that answers my question too, it is a ballance of % and total amount. 

 

I have two strips in 6 frame nucs, 3 seemed like too much total amount. 

 

In terms of the wider experiment community. I dont have enough hives to contribute to anything other than to a meta analysis ?

 

 

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5 minutes ago, Josh said:

I’ve got mine, I have the regular staples. They’re awesomely me, no varoa on last two shakes. I’m currently running 36%. 

 

but that answers my question too, it is a ballance of % and total amount. 

 

I have two strips in 6 frame nucs, 3 seemed like too much total amount. 

 

In terms of the wider experiment community. I dont have enough hives to contribute to anything other than to a meta analysis ?

 

 

I must have my Josh's mixed up

Same applies though,

Two in a six frame nuc would be max IMO

36% OA should be 40%+ IMO (to lower GL content more than increase OA content)

When considering all the dosage issues, high on the list of priorities should be the consideration that this system is a contact one so the Staples need to be numerous.
Like you say, its about achieving a balance

 

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If ox crystals form on the outside of strip are they still ok to use? 

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@Philbee do you think single stitch will hold up in thumping triple hives or am i going to need something more heavy duty? Which ones are you using? 

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16 minutes ago, flash4cash said:

@Philbee do you think single stitch will hold up in thumping triple hives or am i going to need something more heavy duty? Which ones are you using? 

Very timely question.

I no longer make the single stitch staple.
They are prone to the 80/20 rule, that is fine for 80-85% of your Hives and not the hygenic 15-20% that will chew them out.
Great for the hobbyist who is in their Hive weekly, not so good for the larger operator on a circuit rotation.

Today I spoke with a large commercial who has used all there types, single row, double row and EP wides.
His story is typical.

Other than being over the moon impressed he has opted for 100% EPs in the future so as to stretch out the rotation .

He sees the extras cost well worth it 
Lucky Ive got the EP Machine running at 6000 / day

 

Personally I use the Double row because I cant afford the EPs, but am saving up?

To answer your question, the typical feed back  and my experience is that some big hives hardly touch the Staples but 15-20% will chew them out in 10 days

 

 

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5 minutes ago, Philbee said:

Personally I use the Double row because I cant afford the EPs, but am saving up?

You crack me up

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What about my crystal on the surface question? 

 

Do you have a flashy brochure? 

 

One of my hives today had mites in it, almost had a heart attack. 

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Oh and do you take high quality pasture honey as payment ? got boxes full of the stuff and need to do something with it. 

 

I think one of the benifits of ox is it also attacks the nosema C. 

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No Brochure

Crystals on surface dont bother me

What treatment did you use this spring?

Honey is good as long as its legal and not 500kg

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