Jump to content

Oxalic and glycerine


Recommended Posts

8 hours ago, kaihoka said:

Do you think you can have mites but no viruses ,? 

It's not looking like it almost all 59 apiaries had one or more of the viruses, I don't see who has what but just where you sit in comparison, there are some that won't have a type for example in didn't have paralytic mite. This result is going off round 4 of the trail there's one more sample soon.

Edited by tony
  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1
  • Good Info 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 4.6k
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

Hi All, I don't have time to follow every chat group, but I got a notification about this one.  I'm interested in your experiences with OA/gly in NZ, so please feel free to contact me directly at

You are obviously still young . I try and leave the bathroom before the steam has cleared .

This is an issue that comes up often There tends to be two ways that Beeks place Staples and one way results in less Brood damage. Some Beeks remove an edge frame, spread the remaining frames o

Posted Images

10 hours ago, Philbee said:

I would not put OA in syrup as the Bees will be encouraged to eat it.
 

 

I'm confused with this Phill, Oa has been used in sugar syrup for probably nearly 30 years at least 20 that I know and is safe if used correctly and up to 99% effective I think there's even results of 99.7% effective. There is research to suggest that the oa only makes it to the bees hemolymph, which saw a spike in oa levels after about 2 hours no traces where found in rectum, or digestive tract, if I find where I read that I will post it, I think in one of randy Oliver's amazing write ups, obviously there is two sides to everything though, but the fact remains oa in a sugar solution is very effective. I also think we still need to be careful how long oa is in hives for, I would still not rule out oa resistance. I am wondering however if you mixed oa/glycerin and drenched that, how effective that would be?. Another trail but can't do that one now because I have no mites haha, and I haven't even put in my gly strips yet.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
15 minutes ago, tony said:

I'm confused with this Phill, Oa has been used in sugar syrup for probably nearly 30 years at least 20 that I know and is safe if used correctly and up to 99% effective I think there's even results of 99.7% effective. There is research to suggest that the oa only makes it to the bees hemolymph, which saw a spike in oa levels after about 2 hours no traces where found in rectum, or digestive tract, if I find where I read that I will post it, I think in one of randy Oliver's amazing write ups, obviously there is two sides to everything though, but the fact remains oa in a sugar solution is very effective. I also think we still need to be careful how long oa is in hives for, I would still not rule out oa resistance. I am wondering however if you mixed oa/glycerin and drenched that, how effective that would be?. Another trail but can't do that one now because I have no mites haha, and I haven't even put in my gly strips yet.

 

I have not personally experienced evidence regarding OA being bad for Bees to take internally
However my opinion is influenced by anecdotal accounts of it severely affecting the Queens Laying.
I used to put it in my syrup but was persuaded to discontinue the practice.

Interestingly, under a microscope it appears as tiny razor blades or shards.
Randy Oliver told me that the Bees actively avoid consuming it.
On this count though I suspect that bees have a hierarchy of priorities when faced with defensive and hygienic situations.
They do whatever is necessary in a situation with little regard for their own safety, and grooming a hazardous substance from their co workers and the Queen is  instinctual as is taking up syrup even if it contains OA.
As for resistance to OA, we need to come up with other organic acid or similar type alternatives because the reality is that beeks are going to switch over and they need rotational options.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm not sure how oa works I lean on contact but in saying that I did trails years ago in sugar where I found it killed for nearly a week after treatment, I posted results on here somewhere, but it is definitely obvious mites cannot handle it, I've been using oa in syrup for probably 10 years now and seen no evidence it effects bees or hive strength or even brood development,  if I had I would have stopped, the great thing about it, it costs cents per hive not dollars, and is easy to use. But when I talk to some people about it they put it in the to hard basket, each to there own, I reckon it's harder to fix mite infected hives.

Yes there are couple other acids we can use though they are not as effective but still could be part of a IPM, lactic acid and acetic acid have both shown to kill mites, I have not tried either yet but I believe there's a place for it.

Link to post
Share on other sites

This is what Randy says about some other acids...

"

"Nature provides us with an abundance of organic acids to play with. Some that have been tested with varroa are acetic, citric, lactic, oxalic, and formic. The common food acids–acetic acid (vinegar), citric acid (lemons), and lactic acid (which makes yogurt and sauerkraut sour) are not “strong” (don’t dissociate) enough to be effective. Even heat vaporized acetic acid has been found to be ineffective. That leaves oxalic and formic acids, with the huge difference between the two that oxalic remains a solid (or in solution) at hive temperature, whereas formic vaporizes rapidly. "

 

  • Like 1
  • Good Info 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
16 hours ago, Philbee said:

Felted wool is nowhere near as tough as the synthetic fibers in Pams cloth or are you referring to Shop towel Cloths?

 

This is what I mean, http://feltsupplies.co.nz/industrial, and functions http://feltsupplies.co.nz/functionsI used it in a breif trail with formic last summer bees did not chew it, but I ended up going with another product and to be honest never gave it a good go and not with how I do it now. Probably need to get a range of thickness and grades to try.

Edited by tony
Link to post
Share on other sites
40 minutes ago, Stoney said:

Ok, so 3-4 weeks into OX staple treatments of over 3600 colonies I have to say...... yes, population loss is a certainty... but those bees are either older winter bees and or sick virus victims that serve no purpose to the colony anyway.

FD frames 3-5-7-9 And 3/4 2nd brood has 2-3 staples per box. 

all are still queenright with some queens laying under staples and others only on one side of. 

Slabs of brood about to emerge, replacing the loss, slabs of eggs going forward. 

There is willow Honey frames being capped in most  supers. 

After 10 days of treatment in colonies with heavy mite loads I’m still seeing DWV bees with mites attached emerging.. but these are cut down very quickly.

I like the staple.. a lot. 

It works as far as population timing for our main flows here really well. 

I’m glad they never went into our 250 odd cell raisers but they will get into them very soon. 

Oil up those machines philbee.. stock up on cotton... and kiss goodnight to quiet nights in with the missus. 

Thanks Stoney, Glad to be of service.
 

  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Question .

 

As we go around splitting bees and making up duds we track the queen down and then move her and the bulk of the brood and bees to the dud space. We then put O/A staples in. Two or three frames of brood remain on the original location and a cell is popped in. 

With the synthetics I've always held off putting strips in with the cell, more as a costing cutting to avoid wastage if we have a poor mating. With the O/A staples, will the acid affect the viability of the virgin ?

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, jamesc said:

Question .

 

As we go around splitting bees and making up duds we track the queen down and then move her and the bulk of the brood and bees to the dud space. We then put O/A staples in. Two or three frames of brood remain on the original location and a cell is popped in. 

With the synthetics I've always held off putting strips in with the cell, more as a costing cutting to avoid wastage if we have a poor mating. With the O/A staples, will the acid affect the viability of the virgin ?

A very good question, that will get answered when you and others of us have done the trials this season.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
30 minutes ago, jamesc said:

Question 

With the O/A staples, will the acid affect the viability of the virgin ?

 

In my limited experience. No it has no effect.

im using the staples in my cell raisers and it’s having no effect in the finished mated queens or in the viability of the cells as far as we can tell. 

  • Like 3
  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, frazzledfozzle said:

 

In my limited experience. No it has no effect.

im using the staples in my cell raisers and it’s having no effect in the finished mated queens or in the viability of the cells as far as we can tell. 

Great to hear Fraz. 

Did you notice the population “cream off the top” gone at all? 

Link to post
Share on other sites

In my vast experience with one new supercedure queen this season????, her pattern is fantastic . Staples were in since before whe was an egg.

 

What is interesting is will these new OA assisted queens last longer like the pre varroa days ?....

  • Like 2
  • Agree 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

8AD59EF7-FC29-4AD6-97A8-C978A58D6BD9.thumb.jpeg.ff0f8fed781cc08fbdccc6b191df17bb.jpeg

 

C96F3FE3-689F-4C82-A17D-D0173CD42D52.thumb.jpeg.a983d23eb16c7f79fe34d91a536a4a86.jpeg

@Philbee

29/9

The 3/4 hive is starting to build nicely.

Pollen and nectar stores. No drone cells. 

Good brood pattern Queen right

 

Staples went in 5/9 noticeable bee deaths 6/9

rechecked 14/9 and reduced to 1 x 3/4 box. 

 

On reflection and further reading through other threads that all lead to OA staples.

 

My assessment would be, the staples were wetter than is optimum on placement, resulting in the bee losses.

 

 

 

 

 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
32 minutes ago, Beefriendly said:

My assessment would be, the staples were wetter than is optimum on placement, resulting in the bee losses.

Possibly but if you were satisfied at the time that they were not dripping wet it is more likely that the Bee deaths were sick Bees or old Bees or sick old Bees.

Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, jamesc said:

Question .

 

As we go around splitting bees and making up duds we track the queen down and then move her and the bulk of the brood and bees to the dud space. We then put O/A staples in. Two or three frames of brood remain on the original location and a cell is popped in. 

With the synthetics I've always held off putting strips in with the cell, more as a costing cutting to avoid wastage if we have a poor mating. With the O/A staples, will the acid affect the viability of the virgin ?

Lol good Question James and its one that I have avoided experimenting with
Ever since I made the mistake of putting Formic in with virgins and having disastrous matings I never put treatments with Virgins again.
So I cant say and I never take the risk myself.
Do a trial 

Link to post
Share on other sites

What a joy it is getting around seeing strong healthy hives that were pitiful back in mid June . As well as seeing no varroa in drones that open up between boxes as I crack the hives . 

@Philbee you’re a legend ?

 

 

And just to add , fewer and fewer queens are avoiding laying beneath staples . I’m getting solid frames of brood now 

Edited by M4tt
  • Agree 2
  • Good Info 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, Philbee said:

Possibly but if you were satisfied at the time that they were not dripping wet it is more likely that the Bee deaths were sick Bees or old Bees or sick old Bees.

 

The hive hasn’t suffered from the bee deaths... what ever the reason..dead bees

 

My reflection is more about the questions I asked myself.....

why? 

what was different about this hive?

what can I learn and do better another time?

 

It was the only 3/4 hive and the only one to have notable losses

The staples were wetter than the FD length staples, even though they were weighed and within guidelines.

Link to post
Share on other sites

×
×
  • Create New...