Oxalic and glycerine

[Philbee 4630]

16 minutes ago, Rhsgc said:

I'll see if they've separated next time I'm in there

If they gape then the Bees will have more contact over a shorter period of time, they will probably also absorb more water more quickly and generally have a limited service  life 

The Bees will then remove more easily

[tommy dave 979]

has anyone linked Randy Oliver to this thread?

I'm glad to have avoided vaporisation methods and to be able to jump straight to this approach when i feel like it's time to do so, likely a mid-summer treatment this coming season but yet unsure - thanks to all concerned

 

@Philbee is the best option for you having people simply hit buy now on trade me?

Edited July 3, 2018 by tommy dave

[glynn 1517]

1 hour ago, Philbee said:

Here is a cut and paste from one of the eight pages of instructions that go with most purchases of Paper Tape Staples sold in the last month/ 6 weeks

Also a Photo of a Genuine Paper Tape Staple 
If they arnt purchased from me and dont look like this and arnt accompanied by detailed instructions then they are not Paper Tape Staples.
I recon it would have been fair to actually get some real Paper Tape Staples for your comparative  trial

They are only 45 cents each Max.

 

 

Mixing Ratios

 

My personal preference is for a mix ratio of 40% Oxalic Acid, 60% Food grade Glycerin by weight.

For a Pail of 400 Paper Tape Staples this works out to be 3200g Oxalic Acid and 4800g Glycerin.

A weaker mix could be 30% Oxalic Acid to 70% Glycerin.

This works out to be 2400g Oxalic Acid and 5600g

 Glycerin

10% extra of each ingredient can be added to a given number of Staples in a Pail as a surplus to be drained off after soaking.
This will ensure complete saturation.

Yep that's what I did with mine they have held together well I may get some off you next year as I've put it's only been 30 nucs that I had trouble with on 50 % mix.

I will use the board for now as it works for me and I can pump out the numbers I need to do 600 odd hives in no time.

I also think it's worth noting that even though oxcalic and glycerin has been used for many years in South America it's still relatively new here this will be my 3 year playing and what works for me might not work in other places. I try to explain this to other's that want to try.

I couldn't go back to vaporizers without knocking back my hive numbers.

I think people need to know how the synthetic treatments work and know how to read there hives before they take another big step into something different

[Philbee 4630]

16 minutes ago, tommy dave said:

is the best option for you having people simply hit buy now on trade me?

I sell Hobby packs of a 100 pieces but for small amounts Hobbyists are best to do their own
The trademe listings are the same as the store here on nzbees from memory

Probably the biggest help for hobbyist will be when I start supplying  OA/GL premix that can be tipped straight into a container of staples that have either been home made or purchased

Randy Oliver is aware of this product and has been given direction to the equivalent product over there so has probably got a few rolls of Paper Tape by now

Edited July 3, 2018 by Philbee

[Philbee 4630]

Here is a 170 Staple Hobby pack with the option to get us to supply premixed Ingredients as well.

Tonight or tomorrow Ill list them in the market place.

Its a 10L poly Pail with 170 strips and an optional tub of ingredients inside if required.

Combined price, delivered to most Mainfrieght Hubs NZ wide is $145.00 including Gst 

This price is a trial for now, wont be going down though.

About 85 cents per staple with ingredient including gst and freight   

[dansar 5360]

1 hour ago, Philbee said:

Here is a 170 Staple Hobby pack with the option to get us to supply premixed Ingredients as well.

Tonight or tomorrow Ill list them in the market place.

Its a 10L poly Pail with 170 strips and an optional tub of ingredients inside if required.

Combined price, delivered to most Mainfrieght Hubs NZ wide is $145.00 including Gst 

This price is a trial for now, wont be going down though.

About 85 cents per staple with ingredient including gst and freight   

Your labour cost content and investment of time and machinery , although reasonable, is starting to push up the cost. It’s awesome you can provide the product though, so not taking that away from you. Buying these would save me approx $400 over a synthetic strip treatment for 100 double brood box hives IF the kill rate were as good as a synthetic. 

Not a complaint Phil, just me writing down my thoughts.??

[glynn 1517]

Ideal for people that don't want to go to the trouble of buying in oxcalic and glycerin and then mixing it up and making strips. 

 

[yesbut 5701]

5 minutes ago, glynn said:

Ideal for people that don't want to go to the trouble of buying in oxcalic and glycerin and then mixing it up and making strips. 

 

I wonder if there'll be a choice of colour ?

[Kiwi Bee 561]

3 minutes ago, yesbut said:

I wonder if there'll be a choice of colour ?

 

Ask @Daley. She can dye it for you in rainbow finish. ?

[glynn 1517]

54 minutes ago, yesbut said:

I wonder if there'll be a choice of colour ?

Any colour you like as long as it's white or you could have toilet roll brown if you use the board. 

Maybe Phil's next line will be fluo stiched for H&S

Edited July 4, 2018 by glynn
Can't spell to save myself

[Philbee 4630]

4 hours ago, dansar said:

Your labour cost content and investment of time and machinery , although reasonable, is starting to push up the cost. It’s awesome you can provide the product though, so not taking that away from you. Buying these would save me approx $400 over a synthetic strip treatment for 100 double brood box hives IF the kill rate were as good as a synthetic. 

Not a complaint Phil, just me writing down my thoughts.??

The issue of cost isnt related to me but rather the fixed costs associated with small volume

These Staples are the same price as the $45 hobbyist dry pack but freight and packaging take their Toll
For example without getting the calculator out 12 cents +gst of that 85 cents is the average freight per Staple

This is the problem with small packs

A 40 pack with one kg of ingredient was proportionally much more expensive 

This Pack is based around the 5kg x .03 cubic meter freight pricing system.

You wouldn't use this particular package to treat 100 doubles

You would get 2 pails of 400 for $360 and  $118 worth of ingredients plus some freight 

Edited July 4, 2018 by Philbee

[Philbee 4630]

@Dansar

If 100 doubles cost $1200 using synthetics?

100 doubles would use 700 Staples, even at 85 cents inclusive thats only $595 inclusive.

How did you get a $400 dollar difference

Fact is a commercial can do these for 50 cents each which is $350 

Edited July 4, 2018 by Philbee

[Philbee 4630]

3 hours ago, glynn said:

Any colour you like as long as it's white or you could have toilet roll brown if you use the board. 

Maybe Phil's next line will be fluo stiched for H&S

Poly Neon embroidery thread is Ultra fluro

[dansar 5360]

1 hour ago, Philbee said:

@Dansar

If 100 doubles cost $1200 using synthetics?

100 doubles would use 700 Staples, even at 85 cents inclusive thats only $595 inclusive.

How did you get a $400 dollar difference

Fact is a commercial can do these for 50 cents each which is $350 

I was working it out on 5 staples per box.

[Philbee 4630]

9 hours ago, dansar said:

I was working it out on 5 staples per box.

A double gets 7 Staples, 4 down and 3 up.

Each staple costs between 50-85 cents in the hive depending on volume and ingredient options chosen, (straight from Clarks or premixed)
 

[Pinnacle 502]

@Philbee thanks for keeping us all updated.  Apologise if you have convered this before - but do you have a preference for the thick or thin glycerine? Thanks

[Philbee 4630]

9 minutes ago, Pinnacle said:

@Philbee thanks for keeping us all updated.  Apologise if you have convered this before - but do you have a preference for the thick or thin glycerine? Thanks

I have only ever used the thick GL because that is the one typically available

The thin GL as far as Im aware is by special order and available only in 200L drums

[glynn 1517]

I use vegetable based stuff is that what you use

[Philbee 4630]

43 minutes ago, glynn said:

I use vegetable based stuff is that what you use

Food grade GL from Clarks is Vege base

[glynn 1517]

Yes the stuff at the farm places can't tell you what there's is made from.

We are getting ours from pure natural but I never thought about Clark's

[Philbee 4630]

24 minutes ago, glynn said:

Yes the stuff at the farm places can't tell you what there's is made from.

We are getting ours from pure natural but I never thought about Clark's

Clarks retail price runs at about $109 inclusive for GL and $120 Inclusive for OA for 25kg lots of each

[glynn 1517]

Thanks I should of asked last time I got oxcalic

[Kiwi Bee 561]

I apologize if this question was covered before. I know this OA/GL strip treatment is "new" and there are few things that needs time to clarify.

However I consider buying the strips ready to go in the hives and I am not sure for how long can I keep the strips in the bucket. To save money maybe the best will be to buy a big bucket load and use just half(or less) of the strips as I do not need so many at the time.

Will the rest of the strips be "good" to be used a year later? Maybe if I put the strips in zip bags? Is a year too much?

[yesbut 5701]

It's really easy & cheap to buy ox & glyc in small amounts and mix them .. Ox is not awful to handle or anything like that. Buy a pile of strips, make up your brew when needed. Oxalic from paint shops or bunnings etc, glycerine by the litre off TM.

Edited July 5, 2018 by yesbut

[Philbee 4630]

1 hour ago, Kiwi Bee said:

I apologize if this question was covered before. I know this OA/GL strip treatment is "new" and there are few things that needs time to clarify.

However I consider buying the strips ready to go in the hives and I am not sure for how long can I keep the strips in the bucket. To save money maybe the best will be to buy a big bucket load and use just half(or less) of the strips as I do not need so many at the time.

Will the rest of the strips be "good" to be used a year later? Maybe if I put the strips in zip bags? Is a year too much?

The shelf life is an unknown
On the face of it they will last for a very long time soaked and sealed in an air/moisture tight container but,.... there may be long term reactions going on that  as yet we are not aware of so I would say soak what you need that month.
Having said that I use them 6 months old no problem, but why would you?

These Staples cant be sold ready soaked, the closest to ready soaked is dry in a pail along with a pail of premix OA/GL
They are a DIY treatment being used within the Own Use Exemption in the law.