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Just now, Jamo said:

sounds interesting and shows that there is still some learning to do with this very promising treatment. do you mind sharing what the 2 different mixes are for clarification?

thanks

What two mixes are you referring to?

I started out with 50/50 and now use 40/60

Ive changed down because that is the direction that we need to go

30% will be next.
Your nucs have been poisoned by "something" 

was there a fly spray dispenser active when you processed the Paper Tape Staples?  

This observation of yours is so far removed from what has been typically observed that it Screams "external influence"

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Hi All, I don't have time to follow every chat group, but I got a notification about this one.  I'm interested in your experiences with OA/gly in NZ, so please feel free to contact me directly at

You are obviously still young . I try and leave the bathroom before the steam has cleared .

This is an issue that comes up often There tends to be two ways that Beeks place Staples and one way results in less Brood damage. Some Beeks remove an edge frame, spread the remaining frames o

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I  used the 50/50 mix strips for both mixes.

The strips where made at the same time all nucs have been have been treated the same that's why I asked you if you had tried the 50/50 mix.

I have tried to find any other reasons why if it was just one site I could understand but it's over two sites and like I said 4 weeks ago they were chocker with bees the nucs I used a weaker brew are doing fine.

This is not my first rodeo and I will have another play next autumn again but I have great success with the thinner brew both with your Gib tape and the overboard in the same sites.

And it is only nucs that have been hit hard the full hives have done ok both in singles and doubles and I also have some triples that I left a box of uncapped honey on still full of bees they are in different yards away from the nuc sites.

It could be the difference in winter temps humidity ect but it's consistent across the yards 

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1 hour ago, Jamo said:

sounds interesting and shows that there is still some learning to do with this very promising treatment. do you mind sharing what the 2 different mixes are for clarification?

thanks

Yep will find my notes 

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3 hours ago, Philbee said:

It wont be the OA thats killing the Bees or the tape and this have not been observed before.

Something in your trial is way out of wack.
 

Has anyone had the tape and cardboard tested for possible toxins, or chemicals that may show up in residue testing? How soluble are these chemicals in glycerine?  In the production process, a lot more than cellulose goes into both those products.  I would not like to suck or chew on either of them!

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2 hours ago, David Yanke said:

Has anyone had the tape and cardboard tested for possible toxins, or chemicals that may show up in residue testing? How soluble are these chemicals in glycerine?  In the production process, a lot more than cellulose goes into both those products.  I would not like to suck or chew on either of them!

The tape has a msds which doesn't describe any nasties and Ive spoken with the Chemist from the NZ distributor, its harmless. 

Its just kraft paper made in the USA.
Ive just been out around a few hives in the sticks and they are all good, the best Ive seen them in winter.

Glynn has had an external influence of some kind.

There are about 30000 of these out in Autumn / Winter hives and no issues reported
 

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4 hours ago, glynn said:

I  used the 50/50 mix strips for both mixes.

The strips where made at the same time all nucs have been have been treated the same that's why I asked you if you had tried the 50/50 mix.

I have tried to find any other reasons why if it was just one site I could understand but it's over two sites and like I said 4 weeks ago they were chocker with bees the nucs I used a weaker brew are doing fine.

This is not my first rodeo and I will have another play next autumn again but I have great success with the thinner brew both with your Gib tape and the overboard in the same sites.

And it is only nucs that have been hit hard the full hives have done ok both in singles and doubles and I also have some triples that I left a box of uncapped honey on still full of bees they are in different yards away from the nuc sites.

It could be the difference in winter temps humidity ect but it's consistent across the yards 

Did you use 50% by weight or Volume and was it thick or thin Glycerin.

I put one Staple each in 500     3 frame mating Nucs this late summer and not one issue

 

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18 hours ago, Philbee said:

When did these treatments first go in?

Hi just looked back the strips with the 50 50 mix went in on the 28 of February the weakest brew and overboard went in a lot later I only had the Scott towels in them as I had other things on at the time I took some photos of double boxes not long after I'll dig them out thought I had photos of nucs as well will dig deeper.

I wonder if it's because I have left the Gib tape in but I've not had any problems with the weaker brews ? Two weeksIMG_20180419_154122.thumb.jpg.97e01ab52d6725af57cc76e12ccec8ac.jpg after strips went in 

 

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2 hours ago, glynn said:

Hi just looked back the strips with the 50 50 mix went in on the 28 of February the weakest brew and overboard went in a lot later I only had the Scott towels in them as I had other things on at the time I took some photos of double boxes not long after I'll dig them out thought I had photos of nucs as well will dig deeper.

I wonder if it's because I have left the Gib tape in but I've not had any problems with the weaker brews ? Two weeksIMG_20180419_154122.thumb.jpg.97e01ab52d6725af57cc76e12ccec8ac.jpg after strips went in 

 

Are those Staples sewn  with white thread?

I guess one lesson here may be dont leave 50% Staples in Nucs over over winter or just refrain from using 50% solutions
All my instructions advocate 40% or less with 50% being the absolute Max.
Also, if someone makes the mistake of measuring OA/GL by volume instead of weight they will end up with a hotter mix than intended

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10 minutes ago, glynn said:

Yes I think the 50 50 is overkill the Gib tapes and overboard with 30 % are humming along photo from today with overboad humming along queens just coming back on the lay now IMG_20180703_155848.thumb.jpg.cf9d64d4dadf8bc3d73894e59176dc2d.jpg

Glynn are your Paper Tape Staples sewn together? They need to be

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IMG_20180628_140350.thumb.jpg.8de043dac287c10d3d9cee8fe9df8ffb.jpgNo this is overboard the Gib tape is three layers this is a hive using the Gib tape strips with 30% oxcalic photo taken the other day.

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37 minutes ago, glynn said:

IMG_20180628_140350.thumb.jpg.8de043dac287c10d3d9cee8fe9df8ffb.jpgNo this is overboard the Gib tape is three layers this is a hive using the Gib tape strips with 30% oxcalic photo taken the other day.

I mean the photo of the Gib Tape Staple above

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No the only Gib tape I've used is three layers I want to compare the difference between them and the board.

I prefer the board as I can make them in bulk and so far they preform well. The Gib tape takes me a lot more time to do as we did it by hand sewing 150ms at a time then cutting each strip.

But I believe I need to try anything thing to see what works and what doesn't.

Buying ready made strips and spending more time with the fire would be good.

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5 minutes ago, glynn said:

No the only Gib tape I've used is three layers I want to compare the difference between them and the board.

I prefer the board as I can make them in bulk and so far they preform well. The Gib tape takes me a lot more time to do as we did it by hand sewing 150ms at a time then cutting each strip.

But I believe I need to try anything thing to see what works and what doesn't.

Buying ready made strips and spending more time with the fire would be good.

What Im asking is whether the 3 layer Gib tape Staple shown in this photo is stitched.
All mine are stitched, its part of the design

IMG_20180419_154122.thumb.jpg.97e01ab52d6725af57cc76e12ccec8ac.jpg

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I assume a two or three hive man such as myself could get away with a line of  staples instead of sewing ? I've just about used up my roll of towels.

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Here is a cut and paste from one of the eight pages of instructions that go with most purchases of Paper Tape Staples sold in the last month/ 6 weeks

Also a Photo of a Genuine Paper Tape Staple 
If they arnt purchased from me and dont look like this and arnt accompanied by detailed instructions then they are not Paper Tape Staples.
I recon it would have been fair to actually get some real Paper Tape Staples for your comparative  trial

They are only 45 cents each Max.

 

 

Mixing Ratios

 

My personal preference is for a mix ratio of 40% Oxalic Acid, 60% Food grade Glycerin by weight.

For a Pail of 400 Paper Tape Staples this works out to be 3200g Oxalic Acid and 4800g Glycerin.

A weaker mix could be 30% Oxalic Acid to 70% Glycerin.

This works out to be 2400g Oxalic Acid and 5600g

 Glycerin

10% extra of each ingredient can be added to a given number of Staples in a Pail as a surplus to be drained off after soaking.
This will ensure complete saturation.

Paper Tape Staple.jpg

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27 minutes ago, yesbut said:

I assume a two or three hive man such as myself could get away with a line of  staples instead of sewing ? I've just about used up my roll of towels.

That's what I did - took a while but it worked well 

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7 minutes ago, Rhsgc said:

That's what I did - took a while but it worked well 

Staples are fine but the idea is to have a continuous line of them  so that the layers cant separate and the center line of the tapes are in contact.

If you just tack them together they will bulge and gape open when folded over the top bar because the inner laminate has less distance to travel than the outer one.

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13 minutes ago, Philbee said:

Staples are fine but the idea is to have a continuous line of them  so that the layers cant separate and the center line of the tapes are in contact.

If you just tack them together they will bulge and gape open when folded over the top bar because the inner laminate has less distance to travel than the outer one.

I stapled mine on the top and bottom, however they aren't folded over the top bar (top bar hive) they hang straight between the bars which keeps them nice and straight. 

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6 minutes ago, Rhsgc said:

I stapled mine on the top and bottom, however they aren't folded over the top bar (top bar hive) they hang straight between the bars which keeps them nice and straight. 

What you choose to do is up to you of course.
My advice would have been to put a few more staples along the mid line top prevent the bees getting between the laminates.

If the Bees can get between the laminates then the system no longer works in the way it is intended.
 

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3 minutes ago, Philbee said:

What you choose to do is up to you of course.
My advice would have been to put a few more staples along the mid line top prevent the bees getting between the laminates.

If the Bees can get between the laminates then the system no longer works in the way it is intended.
 

I'll see if they've separated next time I'm in there

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