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ikwezinz

Oxalic and glycerine

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1 hour ago, jamesc said:

Was thinking about you today Phil ..... in a good sense ..... We were pulling Apivar strips out  and supering hives. As we pulled the strips we layed our "Cloths " over the top of the single brood box, placed the queen excluder on, and then put the honey boxes on top .... one empty under a full box of honey and bees .... as the bees are to be shipped out shortly to the secret spot.

We started off cutting the cloths, they tear at 500mmm intervals, so we cut them to 250mm and placed a strip at each end of the brood box. That was yesterday. We ran out of cloths so this morning I rushed up some more in my science lab. Only this time I cut the roll into four, lengthwise, soaked them in the acid and then placed the strips, about 50mm wide in a Victory V shape over the brood. By the end of the day we were laying the 500x 50mm strip across the width of the box, slightly spacing the combs, and poking the strips down between the frames with a hive tool.

So, Kimosabhe, how much dosage is in a 500X50mm strip ?

I took photos , but the cell/website phone will only cope with 2 mb download ..... is that to entice me to contribute to the running ?

 

If you were to weigh that strip and weigh another strip with no OA/Gly in it, the difference is your answer.

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1 hour ago, jamesc said:

Was thinking about you today Phil ..... in a good sense ..... We were pulling Apivar strips out  and supering hives. As we pulled the strips we layed our "Cloths " over the top of the single brood box, placed the queen excluder on, and then put the honey boxes on top .... one empty under a full box of honey and bees .... as the bees are to be shipped out shortly to the secret spot.

We started off cutting the cloths, they tear at 500mmm intervals, so we cut them to 250mm and placed a strip at each end of the brood box. That was yesterday. We ran out of cloths so this morning I rushed up some more in my science lab. Only this time I cut the roll into four, lengthwise, soaked them in the acid and then placed the strips, about 50mm wide in a Victory V shape over the brood. By the end of the day we were laying the 500x 50mm strip across the width of the box, slightly spacing the combs, and poking the strips down between the frames with a hive tool.

So, Kimosabhe, how much dosage is in a 500X50mm strip ?

I took photos , but the cell/website phone will only cope with 2 mb download ..... is that to entice me to contribute to the running ?

Well just a rough guess would be that the cloth would weigh next to nothing.

A 50mm wide strip x 500 long is equal to a 25mm wide strip x 1m long which is equal to 5 strips at 200mm long x 25mm wide,

so, if at a guess the shop towel holds half as much as the Pam's cloth, one of your strips would hold the same amount as 5 pam's cloth strips at 5 grams OA each, divided by two.

So that means that your 500mm x50mm strip would hold between 12.5 and 25 grams

Probably closer to 12.5 but a middle mark might be a good guess 

Say 18 grams  OA.

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12 minutes ago, CraBee said:

 

If you were to weigh that strip and weigh another strip with no OA/Gly in it, the difference is your answer.

Mum wont let him use the kitchen scales

But if she does just remember to calculate the GL content as well. 50/50 

another issue is that a 50/50 mix by volume will be slightly rich in OA, maybe 20%

Edited by Philbee
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1 minute ago, Philbee said:

Mum wont let him use the kitchen scales

 

Oh dear, there's sure to be a Warehouse down the road from him around the corner from the secret spot....I got mine there for $20.

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9 hours ago, Philbee said:

Well just a rough guess would be that the cloth would weigh next to nothing.

A 50mm wide strip x 500 long is equal to a 25mm wide strip x 1m long which is equal to 5 strips at 200mm long x 25mm wide,

so, if at a guess the shop towel holds half as much as the Pam's cloth, one of your strips would hold the same amount as 5 pam's cloth strips at 5 grams OA each, divided by two.

So that means that your 500mm x50mm strip would hold between 12.5 and 25 grams

Probably closer to 12.5 but a middle mark might be a good guess 

Say 18 grams  OA.

So why did'nt the powers that be put the calculation in the latest NCEA maths exam and make it a bit more practical and interesting ?  Is 18gm a good amount ? What's the lethal dose rate ?

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4 minutes ago, jamesc said:

So why did'nt the powers that be put the calculation in the latest NCEA maths exam and make it a bit more practical and interesting ?  Is 18gm a good amount ? What's the lethal dose rate ?

Just scrolled back and re read Phils thoughts which clears some of that up.

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26 minutes ago, jamesc said:

So why did'nt the powers that be put the calculation in the latest NCEA maths exam and make it a bit more practical and interesting ?  Is 18gm a good amount ? What's the lethal dose rate ?

I recon a good safe dose is 25 grams OA in 25 grams GL in 5 strips 200mm x 25mm in size each, spread around the Brood nest with one placed smack in the middle.

The next box up can have the same or one less.

I believe that this is most effective if done as the hive is growing, so best in early hives, later splits or entering winter.

It stands to reason that you are better off to nip a mite problem in the bud than try and kill them in a huge hive.

The robust nature of the synthetic strips is more suited to treating strong hives

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1 hour ago, Philbee said:

The robust nature of the synthetic strips is more suited to treating strong hives

And those with deep pockets ?

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In Maggi's article solution is 10 grams of OA and 20 ml of glycerine per strip ( at up to 65-70C mixing). Excess of solution from cellulose strip removed after 10-12 hours of soaking in it. In fact this beek on other forum just take 1 part OA and 2 parts of glycerine. According to him seems working and he is thinking only to use this and trickling/dribble in the future..

Edited by Goran

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2 hours ago, yesbut said:

And those with deep pockets ?

you have talked about your use of MAQs.

i have read that the hive needs to be a certain strength to make it safe.

what is the smallest hive you would use them on

have you use the OA glycerine strips under discussion.

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35 minutes ago, kaihoka said:

i have read that the hive needs to be a certain strength to make it safe.

The book of words  says a single FD I believe. Maybe people are referring to a strong hive not missing a few casualties. I use the single sachet then another two weeks later regime. (On a double 3/4). I still had casualties, because my MAQS is well expired & I'd forgotten my resolution to wrap them in baking paper to slow the rate of gassing.

 

40 minutes ago, kaihoka said:

have you use the OA glycerine strips under discussion

No. I have towels in pretty much permanently. 

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6 hours ago, Goran said:

In Maggi's article solution is 10 grams of OA and 20 ml of glycerine per strip ( at up to 65-70C mixing). Excess of solution from cellulose strip removed after 10-12 hours of soaking in it. In fact this beek on other forum just take 1 part OA and 2 parts of glycerine. According to him seems working and he is thinking only to use this and trickling/dribble in the future..

Yes, that ratio appears to be the commercially available strength.

Its probably a prudent dose.

However the 50/50 ratio wont hurt the bees at 25 grams per box.

It is possible that the 1:2 ratio is a cost based optimized product or maybe its a safety buffer for those who overdose the Hive etc

Who knows? 

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As an aside, I was in a hurry a few weeks back and didn’t halve the shed as per normal and laid a full sheet which basically covered the top of the brood box

 

went back yesterday and the hive hadn’t moved out of the bottom box, box was packed with brood and stored but the sheet was a complete barrier for them.

 

Compared to the adjacent hive which had filled two more boxes in the same time and completely the strips I used, it’s a lesson learnt, they have to be able to work it from the edges 

 

A positive was that there was no sign of varroa at all, so I assume the vapour had an effect vs the physical contact 

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15 minutes ago, ikwezinz said:

I was in a hurry a few weeks back and didn’t halve the shed as per normal

What do you use to do this ?

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3 hours ago, yesbut said:

What do you use to do this ?

Sorry, my posts spelling was shocking - was using the blue towels from supercheap, I am trialling egg box strips and the pams idea, but the sheets still work for me from ease of use and application, 

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12 hours ago, ikwezinz said:

A positive was that there was no sign of varroa at all, so I assume the vapour had an effect vs the physical contact 

There wont be any noticeable vapor from 35 degree C   OA /GL 

It is like getting dust from mud

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8 hours ago, ikwezinz said:

but the sheets still work for me from ease of use and application

Sheets will knock the top off the Mite population and all will be Fine and Dandy.........until Autumn

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2 minutes ago, Philbee said:

heets will knock the top off the Mite population and all will be Fine and Dandy.........until Autumn

Agree, the strips are a better option but sometimes time just doesn’t allow, I now have a supply of pams cloth strips that I take every time I visit the apiaries , post was really more about the barrier the sheets created 

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On a rural site today of just four hives each about one FD box and half a 3/4 super in size.  Ramboard strips went in on October 30th and were little more than pulp on the hive floor(s) today.  Put another lot in each hive.  Didn't do any counts but no mites seen in any drone brood between the boxes and the others bits of drone brood I poked around in.

 

One hive was grumpy as hell, one hive had capped swarm cells (they hadn't gone though :-) ) and in the third hive saw a Virgin, and then later the mated Queen.  Strange as the laying pattern etc was all good.  The fourth hive is now my favourite as it had no obvious issues unlike its high maintenance neighbours.  Got excluders on and under-supered another box on each of them.  Good for at least another three weeks I think.

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52 minutes ago, CraBee said:

On a rural site today of just four hives each about one FD box and half a 3/4 super in size.  Ramboard strips went in on October 30th and were little more than pulp on the hive floor(s) today.  Put another lot in each hive.  Didn't do any counts but no mites seen in any drone brood between the boxes and the others bits of drone brood I poked around in.

 

One hive was grumpy as hell, one hive had capped swarm cells (they hadn't gone though :-) ) and in the third hive saw a Virgin, and then later the mated Queen.  Strange as the laying pattern etc was all good.  The fourth hive is now my favourite as it had no obvious issues unlike its high maintenance neighbours.  Got excluders on and under-supered another box on each of them.  Good for at least another three weeks I think.

Ok, one month and the Ram Board is pulp so it would be fair to say that it ran out of juice at the 2 week mark so the effective treatment time of that medium would be 2 weeks max which is about what I would expect from a strong hive.

This is why I wont use OA/GL in a strong hive unless I am prepared to go back in two weeks.

The Pams cloth is a couple of very tough synthetic fibres

Edited by Philbee
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47 minutes ago, Philbee said:

Ok, one month and the Ram Board is pulp so it would be fair to say that it ran out of juice at the 2 week mark so the effective treatment time of that medium would be 2 weeks max which is about what I would expect from a strong hive.

This is why I wont use OA/GL in a strong hive unless I am prepared to go back in two weeks.

The Pams cloth is a couple of very tough synthetic fibres

Does it really matter if the carrier for the o/a is still in the hive .... after all, we pull the apivar/bayvarol strips out, so why not the cloths as we pull honey off -asuming we get honey - prior to putting more strips in .

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20 minutes ago, jamesc said:

Does it really matter if the carrier for the o/a is still in the hive .... after all, we pull the apivar/bayvarol strips out, so why not the cloths as we pull honey off -asuming we get honey - prior to putting more strips in .

I doubt that the cloth or board left in the hive is an issue but I tend to see a relationship between the structure of the carrier material and the time that it will take the bees to deplete the supply of OA.

Ideally I like to see a carrier that outlasts the OA/GL.

At the same time I would like to see a carrier that holds a lot of OA/GL in a way that is accessible but limited so as to prolong the treatment.

If the carrier is prone to being quickly destroyed by the bees then the opportunity for a prolonged treatment is lost.

Thats the beauty of the polymer  strips, they leach chemical but are indestructible.

Ive considered a type of dense Scotch Bright pad.

The bees wont be able to remove it and it would hold a lot of ingredient.

 

Edited by Philbee
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Currently Pams cloth will outlast the OA/GL

Only Once the ingredient has been exhausted the bees start on the cloth

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Is the Pams cloth the blue stuff in a roll that looks like Chux cloth that you would use to wipe a kitchen bench with? 

 

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9 hours ago, EasyBee said:

Is the Pams cloth the blue stuff in a roll that looks like Chux cloth that you would use to wipe a kitchen bench with? 

 

No.  The yellow stuff that is in a square packet.  There is a picture on this thread somewhere.

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