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ikwezinz

Oxalic and glycerine

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3 hours ago, Shem said:

Did not treat in autumn. Not even a placebo; or dance naked around the hive in moonlight type treatment: zero; zilch; nada; not anything . Sometimes I don't treat for a couple of years. No flukes involved. Why treat when you don't have to? However, this spring (September) I did treat with OA/GL and the egg carton cardboard wasn't strong enough: it was demolished within a week. That's why I subsequently tried something stronger. However, as for  is a week long enough, it should go a long way toward fixing the problem.  Fernando Luis  Esteban says:  "if population and brood is high the bees will removed the strips in less than two month.   With more than 10% of infestation according the size of the swarm we put from 6 to 8 strips per brood chamber and we found excellent results in a week." http://teca.fao.org/discussion/varroa-jacobsoni-natural-methods-fight-it?page=1

In comments  to an article elsewhere he appears to say that cardboard  strips are better than towel https://coronaapicultura.blogspot.co.nz/2017/02/toallas-de-acido-oxalico-y-glicerina.html

You are fortunate that out there in the cosmos you do not need to treat your hives for varroa.

Back here on earth I think if I did not treat my hives for 2 years they would die .

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17 minutes ago, Shem said:

I don't know.

Well you do now:D

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https://www.nzbees.net/profile/2657-kaihoka/

13 hours ago, kaihoka said:

You are fortunate that out there in the cosmos you do not need to treat your hives for varroa.

Back here on earth I think if I did not treat my hives for 2 years they would die .

I empathise with you @kaihoka .  I am thankful for the highly skilled and devoted work of queen breeders with their Varroa sensitive hygiene programmes. After all, their work is aimed at lessening the need for treatment. @Philbee, don't tell my that http://i.stuff.co.nz/business/farming/77730773/fighting-the-good-fight-for-varroa-resistance-in-bees was a fluke. I have been influenced by the small cell advocates and others such as Randy Oliver who says “If you’re not part of the genetic solution of breeding mite-resistant bees, then you’re part of the problem.”; and by Émile Warré, I thank them also, and will continue to try my best to be treatment free.

However, in the mean-time if my bees have a contagious disease, it is socially responsible to fix the problem. It is also responsible not to include toxic residues in food, medicine, or cosmetics. I have always been concerned about Varroa strips. I have tried some of the “alternatives” and found them also to be less than satisfactory. The OA/GL on cardboard is safe easy and effective. Thanks@ikwezinz for bringing this treatment method to my attention.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h1RC_RlWnDM

 

Edited by Shem
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1 hour ago, Shem said:

I am thankful for the highly skilled and devoted work of queen breeders with their Varroa sensitive hygiene programmes.

In my view they nearly qualify as quacks. Selling very expensive products the benefits of which are nearly totally gone after a generation. 

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4 hours ago, Shem said:

@Philbee, don't tell my that

I have trouble translating your Dialect

Which Cosmos are you actually from?

 

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Ive often wondered about the dynamics of Viruses vectored by Varroa.

If a hygienic bee removes a dead or dying Varroa affected pupae, does this mitigate the risks of the attached Viruses also?

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Logic suggests that if virus laden live varroa are removed as well, then that would have to be a benefit ?

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1 hour ago, yesbut said:

Logic suggests that if virus laden live varroa are removed as well, then that would have to be a benefit ?

Its just that you hear stories about the early days when Hives could stand higher Mite loads.

Im thinking that as time has passed, possibly so have the substantial benefits of Hygienic behavior.

Just asking?

 

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On 11/17/2017 at 11:28 AM, yesbut said:

In my view they nearly qualify as quacks. Selling very expensive products the benefits of which are nearly totally gone after a generation. 

Uh huh ... our highly bred (and priced) breeder is still only cogitating along as a single, with no real rush to add a second brood box.

 

As part of our scientific endeavour - I think I mentioned a breeder hive I had picked out to send the queen up to Daykel, and then on catching day found the hive collapsing with PMS , depite having Apivar strips in.... so stuck two shop cloths between the two brood boxes to 'see what would happen'.

We went back yesterday, almost a week later. it was interesting. The bees had deserted the sickly top box and retreated to below the cloths where they had regrouped in a cluster. The PMS had been cleaned out ..... and the hive had no eggs. We left it be and will monitor the situation. Did he O/A cloths prompt it to go queen less, or were they in the process of superseeding ?

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Can someone please direct me to where they buy small, economic, quantities of glycerin? I know it has probably been stated, but the thread is now over 30 pages long!

 

I looked online and found that food grade glycerin can vary greatly in price. But found this:  https://www.vapo.co.nz/products/vegetable-glycerin-vg-organic-1-litre and wondered if it was suitable.

 

Planning on giving this a try. Cheers, Paul (in Christchurch)

 

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1 hour ago, CHCHPaul said:

Can someone please direct me to where they buy small, economic, quantities of glycerin? I know it has probably been stated, but the thread is now over 30 pages long!

 

I looked online and found that food grade glycerin can vary greatly in price. But found this:  https://www.vapo.co.nz/products/vegetable-glycerin-vg-organic-1-litre and wondered if it was suitable.

 

Planning on giving this a try. Cheers, Paul (in Christchurch)

 

I buy it by the 20 L which is 25kg for 100 bucks

$4/ kg non food grade.

None of the synthetic treatments are food grade so why should this be.

There is sometime particularly liberating about carrying a 20L bucket of these treatments around a site for a total cost of about $100 and dealing to Mites. 

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4 hours ago, Philbee said:

I buy it by the 20 L which is 25kg for 100 bucks

$4/ kg non food grade.

None of the synthetic treatments are food grade so why should this be.

There is sometime particularly liberating about carrying a 20L bucket of these treatments around a site for a total cost of about $100 and dealing to Mites. 

 

Where from?

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11 minutes ago, Kiwi Bee said:

 

Where from?

Clarkes cleaning Products Napier

They do both OA and GL

About $100 for 20L GL and the same for 25kg OA

ball park

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I read all these 31 pages in few days ( in one go concentration goes off..). Thanks for sharing experiences. I recently read on the other forum, read the Randy's experiments, also research by Magi..

Shortly, I have none experience with this aplication but I intend to use it as late summer treatment ( my usual treatments are late summer and winter OA dribble) with checking afterward.

I am more leaning to cardboard strips than towels as idea.

Regards.

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7 hours ago, Goran said:

I read all these 31 pages in few days ( in one go concentration goes off..). Thanks for sharing experiences. I recently read on the other forum, read the Randy's experiments, also research by Magi..

Shortly, I have none experience with this aplication but I intend to use it as late summer treatment ( my usual treatments are late summer and winter OA dribble) with checking afterward.

I am more leaning to cardboard strips than towels as idea.

Regards.

Cardboard strips would be great if they work well.

A point for your consideration, Will cardboard absorb OA and then release it as required or will the OA crystallize within the cardboard and remain trapped there. 

Edited by dansar
Changed AO to be OA
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Has anyone had any success, or at least experimented, with egg carton material?

 

I haven't tried (yet), but they look absorbent and like they will get torn apart by bees fairly easily, but maybe not too easily. I've got stacks of them so certainly willing to try if no-one comes back with any info.

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20 minutes ago, CHCHPaul said:

Has anyone had any success, or at least experimented, with egg carton material?

 

I haven't tried (yet), but they look absorbent and like they will get torn apart by bees fairly easily, but maybe not too easily.

I've had the odd egg carton strip last more than a week; but most are just loose fibre before then. Solid cardboard that is used for refrigerating of freezing food;9 same stuff used to be used by bakers): 1.5mm to 2.5mm works and lasts. It needs to be soaked. I use a plastic hive roof.

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1 hour ago, Philbee said:

Cardboard strips would be great if they work well.

A point for your consideration, Will cardboard absorb OA and then release it as required or will the OA crystallize within the cardboard and remain trapped there. 

 

I think I will use original from Argentina recipe ( only OA and gly, no water), 45x3cm, 1,5mm thick cardboard. But long time till then - at the moment I am preparing for winter treatment with OA dribble in December ..

On the other forum beek is excited with results, but when someone is talking all in superlative my natural reaction is cautiousness..

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7 hours ago, Goran said:

 

I think I will use original from Argentina recipe ( only OA and gly, no water), 45x3cm, 1,5mm thick cardboard. But long time till then - at the moment I am preparing for winter treatment with OA dribble in December ..

On the other forum beek is excited with results, but when someone is talking all in superlative my natural reaction is cautiousness..

It does work well but there are limitations in my view

Its best when the hive isnt so strong that the strips are removed too quickly so early spring and Autumn/ winter works well.

If you overdose with wet strips there will be a die off of bees.

Ive tested this and IMO the best safe dose is 5 strips per box, each strip is 200mm x 25mm x 1.5mm fabric. (per box)

Caution not to over do any upper boxes as the OA/GL can drip onto the lower frames increasing the dose.

However I do know that an overdose will kill a lot of bees before it kills the Queen.

An overdose will also kill open Brood.

Ive tested overdose with a wet 200mm x 200mm  towel's hung between frames like strips and 5 strips as well

This is severe and and equal to 10 strips at 5 grams OA per strip.

However IMO it is the concentrated nature of the 200mm x200mm towell dose that is damaging to the hive.

The same dose spread evenly through the hive while still excessive is probably less severe.

 

 

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22 minutes ago, Philbee said:

Caution not to over do any upper boxes as the OA/GL can drip onto the lower frames increasing the dose.

This suggests that your rate of application to the carrier is a lot heavier than Randy's ?

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1 minute ago, yesbut said:

This suggests that your rate of application to the carrier is a lot heavier than Randy's ?

Probably

The Pams cloths are a substantial fiber matrix

A 200mm x 25mm strip will hold 12 grams of OA/GL at 50/50 approx solution strength

It appears to me that my approach to this has been different than Randy's

Randy has used the removal time of the towel too gauge efficacy.

Ive used the taste test over time to gauge overall physical exposure  to the OA/GL by contact.

The difference is that I prefer to see strips last as long as possible while maintaining a positive taste test. (Exposure)

So the ideal medium will be one that lasts the longest and stores the most active ingredient to be released evenly over the lifetime of the strip.

Just My Opinion.

However Id like to see Ram Board work  because it would be easier to place between frames 

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Was thinking about you today Phil ..... in a good sense ..... We were pulling Apivar strips out  and supering hives. As we pulled the strips we layed our "Cloths " over the top of the single brood box, placed the queen excluder on, and then put the honey boxes on top .... one empty under a full box of honey and bees .... as the bees are to be shipped out shortly to the secret spot.

We started off cutting the cloths, they tear at 500mmm intervals, so we cut them to 250mm and placed a strip at each end of the brood box. That was yesterday. We ran out of cloths so this morning I rushed up some more in my science lab. Only this time I cut the roll into four, lengthwise, soaked them in the acid and then placed the strips, about 50mm wide in a Victory V shape over the brood. By the end of the day we were laying the 500x 50mm strip across the width of the box, slightly spacing the combs, and poking the strips down between the frames with a hive tool.

So, Kimosabhe, how much dosage is in a 500X50mm strip ?

I took photos , but the cell/website phone will only cope with 2 mb download ..... is that to entice me to contribute to the running ?

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16 minutes ago, jamesc said:

I took photos , but the cell/website phone will only cope with 2 mb download ..... is that to entice me to contribute to the running ?

No it's 'cos yer too lazy to resize em

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19 minutes ago, yesbut said:

No it's 'cos yer too lazy to resize em

hrrump .... well it used to let me do it .... have the rules changed again ?

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