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Oxalic and glycerine


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Agree.. however.. opening and working a hive anyway I see no extra labour cost to placing a cheap treatment.. it’s just part of the round.. who knows what the neighbours are up to? keeping mine clean is all I’m worried about. 

4-5 treatments a season maybe that’s over the top compared to others but works for me.

interested to see how your experiment goes  Alistair .. have done a few with big mite numbers a couple seasons ago and it’s always interesting watching the results. 

 

 

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Hi All, I don't have time to follow every chat group, but I got a notification about this one.  I'm interested in your experiences with OA/gly in NZ, so please feel free to contact me directly at

You are obviously still young . I try and leave the bathroom before the steam has cleared .

This is an issue that comes up often There tends to be two ways that Beeks place Staples and one way results in less Brood damage. Some Beeks remove an edge frame, spread the remaining frames o

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9 hours ago, ikwezinz said:

Trevor. Out of interest have you done an alcohol wash after the co2 test to see if there was any mite drop from the same sample? 

 

Yes.  There is also a video on the alcohol wash, but that is not what you are asking.

 

I have done several tests with the CO2 and then alcohol washed that sample.  No difference in results.

 

I am now experimenting with ether. Engine start from super cheap.  It works out very cheap to use and is very effective.  

At this stage I am trying to get the treatment quantity so that the ether does not actually kill the bees.  A bit like the CO2.

Currently a bit hit and miss with bee survival. 

Edited by Trevor Gillbanks
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12 hours ago, Stoney said:

Yes it’s still not known the reasons for the varied results... very frustrating.. 

For me I’ve had great results with the staples, it’s now rare to see a bee with wing rot, I have seen mites on bees this autumn as I placed treatments following harvest, they’ve had 2 treatments since then and will get another dose next month for the winter shut down. I requeened a few hives 2 days after treatment recently and was stoked to see dead crawlies  on the floor board.. 

my approach is to keep on top of them and keep my foot on the throat. 

 

So @Stoney has I got this correct you are only using Phils staples each treatment since harvest?

 

Also do you put the staples down the centre as Phil suggests of do you alternate them side to side?

Are you finding the bees are removing all the staples or do you have a lot that you have to remove.

 

I put the spring ones alternated to the side,  a lot of those stayed quiet in tact especially the skinnies.

 

After having read everyone's opinions over the summer, I have come to the conclusion that one of my problems with staples has been putting in staples far to wet.

A few days ago i had some at the bottom of the barrel that were wet, I hung the over the side of a bucket in clumps and it dripped off and they were dry enough to use in two days.  By dry enough I mean dry.

Our main worker dislikes the staples immensly,  he has allergic reactions ends up with days off work and sinus infections.  So I bought a lot of conventional ones for prewinter treatment.  But hubby and I have been running around doing some hives with staples.  

My thoughts, I like the state of the hives from what I have seen,  in hives that were treated last autumn and this spring.  I want to keep perservering with learning how to use Oxalyic.

 

We had big die off of bees, with the spring ones.

 

 

 

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4 hours ago, Trevor Gillbanks said:

I am now experimenting with ether. Engine start from super cheap.  It works out very cheap to use and is very effective.  

At this stage I am trying to get the treatment quantity so that the ether does not actually kill the bees.  A bit like the CO2.

I used an aerosol duster once with ok results. https://www.officemax.co.nz/Clearance/Technology/OfficeMax-HFC-free-Invertible-Air-Duster-200ml-1994387?gs=1&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI9O-u97qE6AIVBJCPCh0ijANAEAQYASABEgJLmfD_BwE

Has anyone pre mixed OA/GL and stored it with ok results? Or is it best to mix and use in the same day?

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48 minutes ago, StephenP said:

I used an aerosol duster once with ok results. https://www.officemax.co.nz/Clearance/Technology/OfficeMax-HFC-free-Invertible-Air-Duster-200ml-1994387?gs=1&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI9O-u97qE6AIVBJCPCh0ijANAEAQYASABEgJLmfD_BwE

Has anyone pre mixed OA/GL and stored it with ok results? Or is it best to mix and use in the same day?

How could you get a knock down of varroa with just blowing air on them.  Am I missing something.

Sorry

 

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17 minutes ago, Trevor Gillbanks said:

How could you get a knock down of varroa with just blowing air on them.  Am I missing something.

Sorry

I think the can had CO2 in it, either that or it was another propellant in the can. It did put them out and they did wake up, probably with a headache.

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4 minutes ago, StephenP said:

I think the can had CO2 in it, either that or it was another propellant in the can. It did put them out and they did wake up, probably with a headache.

The SDS link from your office max link shows approximately 60% butane and 20% propane. Plus or minus 10% for each.

If you light your smoker with a propane torch, then you could probably use that gas without the flame to count varroa. 

Might be simpler and cheaper than separate cans for ether or aerosol duster.

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6 hours ago, fieldbee said:

So @Stoney has I got this correct you are only using Phils staples each treatment since harvest?

 

Also do you put the staples down the centre as Phil suggests of do you alternate them side to side?

Are you finding the bees are removing all the staples or do you have a lot that you have to remove.

 

I’ve used only 40% ox staples for the past 3 seasons, originally straight down the middle but evolved to frame 2,4,6,8 or 3,5,7,9 at alternate ends and usually about 1.5 staple widths in (wides) because we found they split the brood nest in half in most hives. 

I like them sitting on the edge of the brood over the pollen band. 

last season the bees were ferocious at chewing them out hence Phil’s edge protection design which slowed them down really well. 

This season was a great flow here compared to last yr and the bees have barely touched them at all. 

 

My first treatment goes in end of July/early Aug and some hives do lose some population but only maybe 5-10%, this season was barely 3% but quickly bounce back. Colony size for me can be 2-3 boxes of bees at this time. 

Manuka harvest is early Jan , treatment in and then another treatment in mid feb as summer bees are dropping off, 

I will place a fresh treatment mid -late April  and shut them up til July. 

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8 hours ago, Trevor Gillbanks said:

I am now experimenting with ether. Engine start from super cheap.  It works out very cheap to use and is very effective.  

At this stage I am trying to get the treatment quantity so that the ether does not actually kill the bees.  A bit like the CO2.

Currently a bit hit and miss with bee survival. 

Did a quick Google search and came across this, https://www.amazon.com/Compressed-Duster-Refillable-Adapter-Computer/dp/B013ISQDO2

Maybe more forgiving than the air duster office product.

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2 hours ago, StephenP said:

Well the bees would have a hell of a headache then.

yes, I'm surprised they survived at all given that petrol fumes are used to kill hives. However if they survive when you do this with Propane/Butane it is better than a liquid alcohol wash where death is more certain. 

 

Personally I'm quite happy with sugar shakes, that is all I have ever done. They either have a lot of mites or practically none, I don't care if there are actually a couple more or less if a treatment has worked or there has been a reinvasion it is clear enough. Emphasis on accuracy or speed aren't an issue for me.

 

However, if the propane or butane was instant death to the mite that suddenly let go and the bee survived, that would get my attention on a drizzly humid day where sugar shake is a no go. If the bee and the mite both survive, then it seems no better than a sugar shake where some mites are not shaken free.

 

As I understand/imagine it the achohol wash does kill the mite and it lets go of its grip.

I guess ether engine start could certainly kill as effectively as petrol fumes too.

 

Is it fair to say the idea is to provide a knock-out or death to the mites and hopefully only a temporary knock-out for bees; if any.

 

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31 minutes ago, ChrisM said:

yes, I'm surprised they survived at all given that petrol fumes are used to kill hives. However if they survive when you do this with Propane/Butane it is better than a liquid alcohol wash where death is more certain. 

 

Personally I'm quite happy with sugar shakes, that is all I have ever done. They either have a lot of mites or practically none, I don't care if there are actually a couple more or less if a treatment has worked or there has been a reinvasion it is clear enough. Emphasis on accuracy or speed aren't an issue for me.

 

However, if the propane or butane was instant death to the mite that suddenly let go and the bee survived, that would get my attention on a drizzly humid day where sugar shake is a no go. If the bee and the mite both survive, then it seems no better than a sugar shake where some mites are not shaken free.

 

As I understand/imagine it the achohol wash does kill the mite and it lets go of its grip.

I guess ether engine start could certainly kill as effectively as petrol fumes too.

 

Is it fair to say the idea is to provide a knock-out or death to the mites and hopefully only a temporary knock-out for bees; if any.

 

 

I am trying for the knock out with revival.  Mainly because I talk to a lot of hobbyists and they don't tend to want to kill bees when testing for mites.

Me, personally, I don't care if there are a few dead bees when checking for mites.  I am happy with an Alcohol wash. 

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Stephen it does slowly degrade once mixed. If you make strips, keep them in a cool place, and they are probably good for a couple of months. Cos the warmer they are the faster they degrade. Some people have used them 6 months later with no problems. However if you want to be sure they are good, you need to use them fresh.

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Was looking at cans of engine start but went to a bike shop instead. Purchased a cheap CO2 tyre pump kit and they gave me a spare tyre valve. Will modify and see how it works on the bees, using a plastic sistema pickle pot.

Resized_20200307_114544.jpeg

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Looks good Stephen. Please post some pics when you are done, will be interesting.

 

The only thing had me surprised in Trevors video was how those poor unconscious bees get bashed around, then at the end just get up and walk away! 😮

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21 minutes ago, Alastair said:

The only thing had me surprised in Trevors video was how those poor unconscious bees get bashed around, then at the end just get up and walk away! 😮

At least they can walk away, though with perhaps a limp. Similar with a sugar shake. I suppose that's the advantages of having an exoskeleton.

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5 hours ago, StephenP said:

At least they can walk away, though with perhaps a limp. Similar with a sugar shake. I suppose that's the advantages of having an exoskeleton.

Some of the $2 shops have packets of about 5 of the sports ball inflator fittings that fit in the tyre pump fitting which work well only need a 3 mm hole in container, and all good to go.

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