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Oxalic and glycerine


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10 minutes ago, Maggie James said:

This would have to be the most hilarious comment I have seen this week.  Had a real dilemma what emoji to use.  

 

You could dip the gluten free popcorn in kanuka honey, and of course it is dairy, meat & C4 sugar free.  My guess is that potentially you are looking a massive market in the eye. Definitely worth a patent.  When does the shipment arrive?  I guess shipment date is commercially sensitive!

 

Brace yerself Grant - there's another patent issue looming.  

 

Not the smartest move I've made Maggie, drums of honey stacked to the ceiling, and a container of popcorn parked outside, robbing b****** bees everywhere, and can't flush the loo for lack of water.  Doin it tough up here 🙂

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Hi All, I don't have time to follow every chat group, but I got a notification about this one.  I'm interested in your experiences with OA/gly in NZ, so please feel free to contact me directly at

You are obviously still young . I try and leave the bathroom before the steam has cleared .

This is an issue that comes up often There tends to be two ways that Beeks place Staples and one way results in less Brood damage. Some Beeks remove an edge frame, spread the remaining frames o

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3 minutes ago, CraBee said:

 

Not the smartest move I've made Maggie, drums of honey stacked to the ceiling, and a container of popcorn parked outside, robbing b****** bees everywhere, and can't flush the loo for lack of water.  Doin it tough up here 🙂

Stop flushing the flammin popcorn down the dunny!

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1 hour ago, yesbut said:

Not my post you quoted. Dennis I think

1 hour ago, Alastair said:

 

Yeah. Ridiculous. 

 Yup.

 

I show a pic of a sewing machine I want to buy, and all hell breaks loose.

 

I guess i feel it a bit more than some, because for quite a while I have been his usual target.

 

I am not one of the 1000+ hive owners he claims he would put lawyers on, but he sure made it clear what he might do if i bought that sewing machine.

 

I don't use edge stitch in the staples I have made, and have no intention to in the future either.

Thing is, how will anyone know your copying the patent? Gotta go into the hives to find out and that's not legal. 

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Exactly, the thought did cross my mind. Phils teams of lawyers in their gowns and wigs attempting to look in my hives 🤣

 

I have no intention of copying the patent, the problem was finding out what it was, to make sure i don't copy it. Phil very much enjoyed the game of spinning things along but not saying. While also playing the victim.

 

The other thing though, myself and a bunch of other beekeeper friends very much share things around. Now I am on Phils blacklist and am forced to make my own staples, it is very likely i may share some surplus ones around, and accept financial compensation for doing so. In fact i have already been asked for some. As such, it was extra important to me to know what Phils rules are. 

 

And oh, i have learned nothing at all from Phil about staples or the use of oxalic acid, i owe the guy nothing. The information I have used for my owm oxalic treatments that I have been doing since before Phil even had bees, was gained mostly from some overseas web sites where it has been freely available.

 

I have in the past asked Phil questions about the use of his staples, but he has always made a point of being obstructive and never giving a sensible answer. Awesome customer service.

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11 hours ago, Alastair said:

Bad coffee. 😉

I think some people might be having too much coffee.  

 

Here in the boondocks there aren't many outlets for coffee.  My two cups coffee per diem at 0630 in my kitchen are quality.

Edited by Maggie James
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8 minutes ago, Dennis Crowley said:

Thats breakfast

Tomorrow 6.30 a.m two cups of decent coffee.   And some leftovers from tonight's tea - 2 x home grown courgette patties, with parmesan cheese, bacon, homegrown shallot etc, covered with homemade homegrown tomato salsa

 

I am a foodie.  Doesn't have to be expensive tucker, just good quality.  

 

Which reminds me, thanks Dennis, need to take some home kill out of the freezer right now for tomorrow night.  

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3 hours ago, CraBee said:

OK well Phil has got the chop and in the middle of the skirmish I, perhaps unwisely, ordered a whole container of popcorn in from China via Alibaba.  I don't have a whole lot of use for it now, the entertainment has stopped and I'm left holding the baby (as such). So yeah anyone wanting popcorn at cost price, give me a yell, details on the profile.  Ta . (Will throw in some non edge protected staples).

Hang on to the popcorn .....  there's sure to be some new  entertainment coming shortly ..... and if not, we'll make our own.

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13 hours ago, jamesc said:

Hang on to the popcorn .....  there's sure to be some new  entertainment coming shortly ..... 

 

And here it is!! 😁

 

I went out this morning and put my own homebrand staples in some hives. Something i noticed, the first site i did was early and in the shade. Had plenty of energy, felt good. Second site, day starting to warm up and the site in full sun. Started to feel drained. Realised why it's been so hard pulling honey this year, the heat!! Anyhow got plenty of time now so canned it after that site, will do more hives another day, off to the cafe for a nice air conditioned lunch and read the paper. 🙂

 

But back to business, these staples are my copy of the old South American version, a single sheet of cardboard with a bead of thread down the middle so if the bees chew the top out, the rest will not fall down.

 

Each staple has an average of 6 grams of oxalic acid, which at 4 strips a box equals 24 grams, or a bit more than the 18 grams recommended by Randy Oliver. Cost at 4 strips a hive a bit under a dollar, not counting labour of course, although my time is not worth much these days LOL.

 

While i was putting the strips out i could detect a slight smell of formic acid. I am no chemistry buff but am wondering if that means something in the cardboard is reacting with the oxalic acid. Are there any chemistry buffs out there who could shed some light on that?

 

Anyhow at end of day, the results will be known in a few months. Did it kill the mites, did it hurt the bees. That's what matters.

 

 

staples.jpg

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22 minutes ago, Alastair said:

While i was putting the strips out i could detect a slight smell of formic acid. I am no chemistry buff but am wondering if that means something in the cardboard is reacting with the oxalic acid

 

maybe or maybe that the OAG got too hot?

What were the steps you took for heating, dissolving and soaking?

How did you confirm how much was in each strip?

How long did these soak and how did you deal with any surface residue (wetness)?

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Good questions Chris.

 

There was no FA smell when I mixed it, i think my procedure was good. Already described it but again, I heated ther glycerine to around 120 C, then took it off the heat and tipped in the OA, which pretty much instantly dropped the temperature to a bit over 50 C. So there were seconds at best that the temperature was high enough to convert any OA to FA, and this method was also recommended on Beesource by a guy with a chemistry degree, as the way of least harm to mix it.  heating the whole thing pre mixed on a stove, exposes the OA to more damage than the way I did it.

 

For soaking I just laid out the strips in fish bins and poured over the mix. I know there is an average of 6 grams per strip because all the mix was absorbed, and the amount of OA in the mix divided by the number of strips came out at 6 grams.

 

Wetness, there is none. The cardboard is pretty absorbant and has soaked it all up and expanded a bit, the strips are so dry I was tempted to not bother with gloves putting them out. But i did anyway cos there are little crystals on the surface.

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No. 🙄

 

Just judging by eye the hives are about where they would normally be this time of year. Most hives showing no visible signs of mites so probably at 1% or so, and an occasional hive showing an affected larva so maybe up to 3% +.

 

Not very scientific i know, and won't please everyone LOL. But the acid test will be how things are looking come spring. Most hives have been treated with bayvarol, but I have saved about 100 or so hives near to home to be treated with my homebrand staples, so I can go take a look at them every few weeks and see how it's going. 

 

If they come through in good shape, that's all i care about. 

Edited by Alastair
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4 hours ago, Alastair said:

Good questions Chris.

 

There was no FA smell when I mixed it, i think my procedure was good. Already described it but again, I heated ther glycerine to around 120 C, then took it off the heat and tipped in the OA, which pretty much instantly dropped the temperature to a bit over 50 C. So there were seconds at best that the temperature was high enough to convert any OA to FA, and this method was also recommended on Beesource by a guy with a chemistry degree, as the way of least harm to mix it.  heating the whole thing pre mixed on a stove, exposes the OA to more damage than the way I did it.

 

For soaking I just laid out the strips in fish bins and poured over the mix. I know there is an average of 6 grams per strip because all the mix was absorbed, and the amount of OA in the mix divided by the number of strips came out at 6 grams.

 

Wetness, there is none. The cardboard is pretty absorbant and has soaked it all up and expanded a bit, the strips are so dry I was tempted to not bother with gloves putting them out. But i did anyway cos there are little crystals on the surface.

 

Alastair, I heat the glycerine to about 60C then tip in about half the OA and stir it around a bit, then when temp gets to about 60C again tip in the balance of the OA.  Is that acceptable practice based on your research?

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Might be OK Craig I'm no expert. Just, the guy with the degree said damage to the OA is about time it's hot as well as temperature, and heating it with the OA in it means the OA is sitting over a hot plate for a lot longer. Or something to that effect anyway.

 

I have gone back to the forum he was on and asked about it, if I find out I'll post here with his answer.

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7 hours ago, Alastair said:

 

And here it is!! 😁

 

I went out this morning and put my own homebrand staples in some hives. Something i noticed, the first site i did was early and in the shade. Had plenty of energy, felt good. Second site, day starting to warm up and the site in full sun. Started to feel drained. Realised why it's been so hard pulling honey this year, the heat!! Anyhow got plenty of time now so canned it after that site, will do more hives another day, off to the cafe for a nice air conditioned lunch and read the paper. 🙂

 

But back to business, these staples are my copy of the old South American version, a single sheet of cardboard with a bead of thread down the middle so if the bees chew the top out, the rest will not fall down.

 

Each staple has an average of 6 grams of oxalic acid, which at 4 strips a box equals 24 grams, or a bit more than the 18 grams recommended by Randy Oliver. Cost at 4 strips a hive a bit under a dollar, not counting labour of course, although my time is not worth much these days LOL.

 

While i was putting the strips out i could detect a slight smell of formic acid. I am no chemistry buff but am wondering if that means something in the cardboard is reacting with the oxalic acid. Are there any chemistry buffs out there who could shed some light on that?

 

Anyhow at end of day, the results will be known in a few months. Did it kill the mites, did it hurt the bees. That's what matters.

 

 

staples.jpg

So what was the cardboard that you used and how thick?

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It's jinbo, 1.65 mm thick, which is a common cardboard. I got it from Super Print, in Barry's Point Rd, Aucklands North Shore, who supplied the cardboard and cut 1,650 of them to the correct size, for 150 bucks.

 

But before everybody rushes off and gets some, let's see if there is an issue between the cardboard and the oxalic acid. I will update. 

 

 

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What's interesting Yesbut from your link, is that those staples contain far more OA than the ones i made. Which is also far more than what Randy Oliver recommends. I'm wondering if this could be behind the issues with bee deaths, knockbacks, and dwindling.

 

With the lower dose, will be interesting to see if mine actually work, and if so, if they are also gentler on the bees.

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