Jump to content

Oxalic and glycerine


Recommended Posts

9 hours ago, olbe said:

the so called staples will work with very high mite numbers, I can,t say whether Phils tape is any good on high mite levels as I have never tried them, but I see no reason why they wouldn't work. In all my testing I have found using SF board mite levels will drop by around 50% every seven days (alcahol wash) once zero mites are achieved I have had hives remain on zero mites with the same strips for over 6 months.

 

What is SF board?

 

Also your hives remaining on zero mites for 6 months, would that be leaving the OA strips in over winter?

 

My own hives were treated for 8 weeks or so last spring and the strips removed. I am now finding most hives have about the normal level of mites they would have had if they had been treated with synthetics. But some have near zero mites, I'm wondering if there is some residual level of OA in the hives generally, that has continued to suppress mite levels even without the strips being in

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 4.6k
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

Hi All, I don't have time to follow every chat group, but I got a notification about this one.  I'm interested in your experiences with OA/gly in NZ, so please feel free to contact me directly at

You are obviously still young . I try and leave the bathroom before the steam has cleared .

This is an issue that comes up often There tends to be two ways that Beeks place Staples and one way results in less Brood damage. Some Beeks remove an edge frame, spread the remaining frames o

Posted Images

4 hours ago, Alastair said:

 

What is SF board?

 

Also your hives remaining on zero mites for 6 months, would that be leaving the OA strips in over winter?

 

My own hives were treated for 8 weeks or so last spring and the strips removed. I am now finding most hives have about the normal level of mites they would have had if they had been treated with synthetics. But some have near zero mites, I'm wondering if there is some residual level of OA in the hives generally, that has continued to suppress mite levels even without the strips being in

 

Makes me think, how many Staples are adequate,? Is 4 too many per brood chamber. Is two ok? 

Link to post
Share on other sites

That's what I'm wondering.

 

I'm thinking the OA should be evenly spread, so 4 per box is probably good. But the staples I'm making are a bit lighter they will have less OA per strip. Hoping that will be a good thing.

 

My new sewing machine arrived this morning so I have taken the day off to find out how to work it. Unlike the one I nearly bought the other day it is brand new and heavy duty. Once i figured it out and got a system going, I put through a tad under 600 staples in 1 hour. Meaning my sewing lady has been ripping me off big time.

 

Anyhow it's going to pay for itself pretty quickly, glad I bought it.

 

Now to experimenting on actual hives. 👍 🙂

  • Good Info 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
18 minutes ago, Alastair said:

, I put through a tad under 600 staples in 1 hour.


that’s impressive! What machine did you get? I’m in need of an upgrade cause the foot isn’t strong enough to drag the gib paper through. 
 

Note that I do four layers and was thinking about moving to five or six because I make all mine into ‘narrows’. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Gino de Graaf said:

 

Makes me think, how many Staples are adequate,? Is 4 too many per brood chamber. Is two ok? 

 

I worked out at one stage three per brood box would deliver 18grams OA which was the optimal dose per Randy Oliver.  

  • Good Info 4
Link to post
Share on other sites
54 minutes ago, CHCHPaul said:


that’s impressive! What machine did you get? I’m in need of an upgrade cause the foot isn’t strong enough to drag the gib paper through. 
 

Note that I do four layers and was thinking about moving to five or six because I make all mine into ‘narrows’. 

 

Unfortunately at this stage I can't say, because although legal eagles may no longer be posting, I'm sure they are watching.

 

I just need to figure what is the exact legal situation, and then i will be an open book. I probably got a target on my back so for now, playing safe.

 

What I can say i guess, is it is a well known brand, and advertised as industrial. I think it is worth going for quality, based that sewing cardboard is tougher than cloth, and the ease this thing chomps through the work  gives me confidence it will easily handle the many thousands of staples an average beekeeper would need to make.

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

I've been putting a leg of staple down every gap that contains brood. This has been between 5 and 3 staples in a Lang box and up to 12 staples in a top bar hive. In a Lang brood box four has been quite normal.

 

  • Good Info 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Alastair said:

That's what I'm wondering.

 

I'm thinking the OA should be evenly spread, so 4 per box is probably good. But the staples I'm making are a bit lighter they will have less OA per strip. Hoping that will be a good thing.

 

My new sewing machine arrived this morning so I have taken the day off to find out how to work it. Unlike the one I nearly bought the other day it is brand new and heavy duty. Once i figured it out and got a system going, I put through a tad under 600 staples in 1 hour. Meaning my sewing lady has been ripping me off big time.

 

Anyhow it's going to pay for itself pretty quickly, glad I bought it.

 

Now to experimenting on actual hives. 👍 🙂

Who would have thought that a career in beekeeping could lead on to one sewing. Will have to Google vocab sites to find out what the male version of seamstress is.

  • Haha 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
51 minutes ago, Sailabee said:

Who would have thought that a career in beekeeping could lead on to one sewing. Will have to Google vocab sites to find out what the male version of seamstress is.

"Seamster"

  • Good Info 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Alastair said:

 

Unfortunately at this stage I can't say, because although legal eagles may no longer be posting, I'm sure they are watching.

 

I just need to figure what is the exact legal situation, and then i will be an open book. I probably got a target on my back so for now, playing safe.

 

What I can say i guess, is it is a well known brand, and advertised as industrial. I think it is worth going for quality, based that sewing cardboard is tougher than cloth, and the ease this thing chomps through the work  gives me confidence it will easily handle the many thousands of staples an average beekeeper would need to make.

Im sure you can answer the question it is only about what machine you bought and how to use it. Phil's patent is aimed at commercial use and selling of his idea not how he makes them, thats already in public info on this forum.

  • Agree 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

To be straight, he can always amend his patent and I suspect he would do that.

 

I'd just feel better not saying for now, I don't want the little that's left that I can do, taken away.

 

Sorry, i may seem pedantic, but that's my decision. Loose lips sink ships.

 

On a different note, i just mixed up the oxalic glycerine mix, here's how. As per Otto's recipe, 1 1/2 kg's glycerine to 1 kg oxalic acid.

 

Heat, and time it is hot, can degrade the oxalic acid, so my preference is to not heat the mix while the oxalic acid is in it. We want the mix to be around 60 C to dissolve the acid, so to avoid bringing it up to that temperature with the acid sitting in it and being degraded over the time, I heated the glycerine to just over 120 C, and measured the temperature with one of these https://www.trademe.co.nz/home-living/lifestyle/home-brewing/brewing-and-winemaking-equipment/listing-2538230692.htm?rsqid=9c66035be0d74cbf9130dcf59e381f9c-001

 

Then took it off the hot plate and dropped in the oxalic acid crystals and stirred immediately, which pretty much instantly dropped the temperature to a bit over 50 C, which was just enough to dissolve the crystals. 

 

No formic acid smell and I think that has done about as good a job of it as could be possible.

 

Have put the staples in a fish bin and tipped the hot mix over them. It needs to be hot to soak in.

 

 

  • Agree 1
  • Good Info 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Alastair said:

That's interesting ChrisM, is that your standard Philbee staples? 

And no noticeable damage to bee population?

 

Hi, no, at least not that I can detect. We did use the single stitch tapes 600mm long to start with as the TBH are jumbo depth. This did divide some hives as others found also and so we ended up with honey one side and brood the other side. Currently I am using quad and EP 500mm long tapes. The 600mm figure was a bit too long touching the floor and with the 500mm tapes they do not quite reach the bottom of the brood comb there is maybe 25mm to 30mm of brood beyond the bottom of the tape. This gives the queen a possible route from port to starboard where she does not have to go across the tape. I'm following the brood if it is slightly assymetrical or doing a slight zig zag but basically down the middle of the hive.

I only ever get dry tapes from Phil and I do the mix in a huge s/s pot on the kitchen stove that is gas on the lowest possible setting. I heat until the cloudy OAG mixture clears and goes transparent then hot it goes straight on the tapes in a 10 litre bucket. I mix up only the right amount and there is no surplus, nor surplus wetness when I'm done. I never put them on a drying rack. However I do turn them over so bottom ones are at the top and it is a good long while before any go into a hive so everything is totally absorbed.

 

  • Like 2
  • Good Info 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, ChrisM said:

The 600mm figure was a bit too long touching the floor and with the 500mm tapes they do not quite reach the bottom of the brood comb there is maybe 25mm to 30mm of brood beyond the bottom of the tape. This gives the queen a possible route from port to starboard where she does not have to go across the tape.

Good idea. Shorter to allow queen movement. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Gino de Graaf said:

Good idea. Shorter to allow queen movement. 

I have started doing that this month (Feb) for autumn treatments; so it is not proven and I have no feedback on that yet.

I did previously buy 600mm single stitch from Phil, but more recently he no longer supplies single stitch and he only makes them 400mm long. We did run with the 400mm tapes, but we ended up using 300mm on one side and only 100mm on the other and eventually ended up using twice as many tapes and/or having 100mm poke up in the air. It just didn't work out well for us. This time around we overcame that by purchasing 90m rolls of quad and EP and cutting them to length myself. This has been easy and simple to manage. If Phil will allow it we will always buy rolls from now on.

2 minutes ago, Alastair said:

Chris, with you adding the exact amount, are there any issues around getting thorough penetration? And if so, what do you do about that?

I have a little excel spreadsheet. I weigh the empty bucket, I put in the tapes, I get the net weight and I divide by 12g to get the approximate equivalent number of tapes if they had all been 400mm. Then for that number of tapes I multiply by 20g to get the amount of solution which is then 40/60 so using digital scales from kitchen I can get  it right. Typically I am doing between 75 and 150 tapes at a time at the moment because this is the (small) scale we operate at. This will generally go to two layers of tapes in a 10l bucket looking like tree rings with a hole in the middle 120mm diameter where I can't be bothered rolling up tapes so tightly. Thus I can see to the bottom of the bucket and I can see what fluild there is. I tip the bucket over to 45 degrees of heel and I rotate the bucket 90 degrees every time I remember / walk past  it. After four or five days I remove the two layers of 'tree rings' and turn them over as well as reversing their order. So far as I know there is no appreciable number of tapes that are dry or lacking. I used to only do one layer in the bottom of the 10litre bucket  and I think that is totally idiot proof, but these days I need to make a few more. 

  • Good Info 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

Just a little note out of politeness more than anything to let you know that Philbee decided to threaten myself (as the site owner) with legal action, to further protect his patent last night. As a result he has been banned from the site, so will not be able to reply further to any topics.

  • Like 1
  • Good Info 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
43 minutes ago, jamesc said:

Alistair will be smiling ....

 

Not at all.

 

Despite appearances I would have much preferred a good relationship with the guy. As a paying customer of his, if i could have just had a straight answer to some honest questions, that would have solved everything. Or, if he didn't know, could have said, and that would have been fine.

 

Phil chose his own path.

 

 

.

Also @Dennis Crowley, now the guy is showing his true colours, can you see my reluctance to reveal what kind of sewing machine i have. After or maybe even before, I will be in line for Phil's attention, and he already threatened me not to buy the previous sewing machine I nearly bought.

 

I'm just not going out of my way to invite even more problems from this kind of person.

Edited by Trevor Gillbanks
Fix tab
Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...