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Oxalic and glycerine


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Hi All, I don't have time to follow every chat group, but I got a notification about this one.  I'm interested in your experiences with OA/gly in NZ, so please feel free to contact me directly at

You are obviously still young . I try and leave the bathroom before the steam has cleared .

This is an issue that comes up often There tends to be two ways that Beeks place Staples and one way results in less Brood damage. Some Beeks remove an edge frame, spread the remaining frames o

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26 minutes ago, Stoney said:

 

 

Can’t anyone wanting all this patent information from philbee just phone him up and have a grown up conversation? 

Dragging on and on on here to be honest is changing the face of this forum. 

Personal issues between members should be kept as such for the sake of all the other members. 

A simple phone call may give all the answers one needs without all this constant bickering. 

 

 

Generally I would agree, but over this thread and several others many posts have amounted to advertorials, and has blurred the lines considerably between unbiased facts, and sales promotional material. Somewhere Philbee stated that he no longer owned some part of this business, in order to be able to do the trials he has been doing so that they qualify as 'independent'  which I find very disconcerting, as it couldn't be described as 'dealing at arms length' as they say, but that is not to say there is anything wrong with the results.

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It depends what his patent actually says. And he doesn't want to tell, unless we go through pages of argument and stupidity trying to find out.

 

If he has patented any devise containing cellulose for the purpose of delivering medication to a beehive, then he has about covered everything, nobody can make a staple.

 

If you re read the pages of argument i have had with him, you will see that all i was doing was trying to find out what i am allowewd to do. And all he was doing was playing stupid games to avoiding saying. And the lack of response from him now seems like he is still avoiding saying.

 

In the world of staple making, Phil now controls who can do what. And give some people a little power or control, and it goes right to their head.

 

Once again Phil, just spit it out, tell us your rules.

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1 hour ago, Stoney said:

Can’t anyone wanting all this patent information from philbee just phone him up and have a grown up conversation? 

 

I have been on the phone with him.

 

Let's just say he is as helpful on the phone as he is on the forum.

 

Phil has said he wants us to understand his rules. If that was true, a simple link to his patent would be no drama. 

 

Long time ago i was considering patenting devices to apply OA myself, not for financial enrichment, but just to keep it free for the use of all by preventing any mean spirited person from slapping on rules to prevent beekeepers doing their own thing. Pity i didn't.

 

 

 

 

 

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5 hours ago, Alastair said:

Or even better, can you provide a link to the actual patent.

Absolutely. this is one of those topics where patent discussions have come in and it would have been better to hive it off into a topic of its own, but we're far too far down the line for that.

However, patents are able to be viewed, so why not give the link? (If they are indeed actually patented at this time, but that'ts another issue, especially as there are no new ones regarding oxalic staples since 2016). In the meantime

https://www.iponz.govt.nz/about-ip/patents/search/

 

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27 minutes ago, Grant said:

Absolutely. this is one of those topics where patent discussions have come in and it would have been better to hive it off into a topic of its own, but we're far too far down the line for that.

However, patents are able to be viewed, so why not give the link? (If they are indeed actually patented at this time, but that'ts another issue, especially as there are no new ones regarding oxalic staples since 2016). In the meantime

https://www.iponz.govt.nz/about-ip/patents/search/

 

One thing I never ever do is Bluff

There have been times when I should have but its not in my character.

If I say there are Patents then you would be extremely well advised to believe me.
 

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Edit: Don't worry I've done your job for you. This is where you do yourself absolutely no favours at all. You're selling to a closed NZ market, if you antagonise your customers they wont buy off you even if they wanted too. get yoursleef some marketing people and grow your business instead of self destructing it. 

 

wow, that took some finding. Not easy and I know how to do searches and filter results properly to return what you need. Anyway: it was only published on the 31st Jan 20

 

 

https://app.iponz.govt.nz/app/Extra/IP/Mutual/Browse.aspx?sid=637175285618349136

 

 

 

745836 - A2_Specification.pdf

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34 minutes ago, Grant said:

if you antagonise your customers they wont buy off you even if they wanted too

Have you noticed that I removed my contact details from my profile.
I was horrified to learn that beeks were getting my details from here and calling wanting Laminates/ staples.

You worry about your business and Ill look after mine.

 

24 minutes ago, Alastair said:

Thanks Grant.

 

This whole mess could have been ended so simply, pity you had to step in.

 

But good the NZ beekeeping community now know what we can no longer do.

You are over dramatizing a tad here.
What Beeks cant do is manufacture overlock or stitch cellulose products for commercial use

That includes over board and single layer cardboard.

The sole reason they cannot do this is because they did not invent it.

However anyone can use the system for non commercial purposes 

Remember

Anyone can make a laminate with a single row of stitch for commercial use

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11 minutes ago, Philbee said:

I was horrified to learn that beeks were getting my details from here and calling wanting Laminates/ staples.

 

You put them there, and may I add it clearly states whats visible when you do so.

 

You also advertised your staples, so they'd need to contact you to make a purchase.

I'm horrified you're allowed on the internet. You can no longer contribute to this topic because you're just winding people up for the sake of it.

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26 minutes ago, Philbee said:

What Beeks cant do is manufacture overlock or stitch cellulose products for commercial use

That includes over board and single layer cardboard.

The sole reason they cannot do this is because they did not invent it.

However anyone can use the system for non commercial purposes 

Remember

Anyone can make a laminate with a single row of stitch for commercial use

 

Oh. Now you tell us.

 

Coulda said that a week ago and put this whole thing to rest.

 

 

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The way i read it, personal use includes using them on ones own hives even though commercial. Best I can tell by commercial use he means selling them.

 

Also just incase you missed it, Phil is now blocked from commenting on this thread so you won't get an answer from him. Which does not change much, because if he was here, you would not have got a straight answer anyhow.

 

He has been blocked for being a jerk, and taking pleasure in doing so.

 

Absolutely correct move on behalf of the moderators. Grant set up this forum for the free and useful sharing of information between beekeepers. Phil has never respected that, or even understood it. He told Grant to mind his own business, and Grant has done exactly that.

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1 hour ago, Gino de Graaf said:

Ok. Commercial use? I can't make them and sell them to someone else? 

 

Or can I make them for my own personal use, what's commercial use.

The patent is about the edge protection and how the stitch is used. 

 

 

If you had a legal challenge, I would suggest that there would be a host of people prepared to help ensure you had the professional expertise available to defend yourself - this has been very much a collaborative development. If someone develops and produces a purpose constructed fibre product without stitching for example it would be a mission to tie it to said patent.

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47 minutes ago, Alastair said:

Agreed. Phil is certainly not the inventor. Staples under another name have been used overseas for years and Phil merely copied that. Patenting it showed a lot of gall in my opinion.

Had a quick skim through. Seems that what is covered/claimed in the patent is what is described beginning page 15 of the patent document, basically edge protected strips and their use as a varroa treatment medium. I'm no lawyer though 

Edited by tommy dave
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8 hours ago, olbe said:

the so called staples will work with very high mite numbers, I can,t say whether Phils tape is any good on high mite levels as I have never tried them, but I see no reason why they wouldn't work. In all my testing I have found using SF board mite levels will drop by around 50% every seven days (alcahol wash) once zero mites are achieved I have had hives remain on zero mites with the same strips for over 6 months.

I agree, last season where I worked we ran a few experiments, they do work on high loads. 

The key is not to let them reach heavy infestation in the first place and staples are real good at keeping things in check in my experience. 

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