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Oxalic and glycerine

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2 hours ago, Maggie James said:

I have a pair of very old, high quality pinking shear scissors that haven't had much use.  

 

Maggie there are many ways to skin a cat. Me, I am not mostly a subscriber to just one only way to do something, particularly in beekeeping.

 

The my way is the best way people, are normally not far past the beginning of their beekeeping journey.

 

If you want to use pinking shears, use pinking shears.

Edited by Alastair
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My understanding for the edge protection in the first place was because the girls can't get their nashers in a start removing the tape that holds the oa and glycerine in the hive.  Apparently they have trouble destroying the staple from the flat surface and will start on the edge.  Pinking shears might give them easier access in to remove the strip more quickly.

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6 minutes ago, Oma said:

My understanding for the edge protection in the first place was because the girls can't get their nashers in a start removing the tape that holds the oa and glycerine in the hive.  Apparently they have trouble destroying the staple from the flat surface and will start on the edge.  Pinking shears might give them easier access in to remove the strip more quickly.

You are 100% correct on the pinking shears Oma.

The advice Ive offered to all so far is designed to help people not hinder them.

I fully understand the Kiwi way of wanting to have a go themselves and in fact I fully support that.

There have been Beeks doing DIY staples / Laminates and other ways for about 130 of the 167 pages of this thread

Before that there were lots of Beeks using cardboard and they still are using cardboard.

I dont remember it ever being an issue, there were great photos posted of Mum and the kids making Staples of Gib paper.

So what changed? 
 

 

 

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Patents, lawyers, and implied threats.

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Good to get that out of the way.

Far more important than the type of cellulose device  used is the type of solution  used  and for anyone who wants to do some experiments Id suggest heating a very small batch of solution to a temp  over 100deg C and doing a sticky board test.

Safety is paramount so take all necessary steps to protect yourself and others.
A small quantity of solution in sauce bin on a hot plate  could have the cellulose dropped in with a minimum of handling and pouring.

Just heat the solution, turn off the heat and drop the strips in, let cool.

Note. This may produce 5% Formic acid.

 

 


 

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35 minutes ago, Philbee said:

A small quantity of solution in sauce bin on a hot plate  could have the cellulose dropped in with a minimum of handling and pouring.

Huh ? Cellulose ??

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He's talking legal definitions, lawyers stuff for patent protection.

 

In laymans terms, cardboard.

 

Probably covers other organic stuff such as cotton, or anything incorporating the cell wall of a once living organism.

Edited by Alastair

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1 minute ago, Alastair said:

He's talking legal definitions, lawyers stuff for patent protection.

 

In laymans terms, cardboard.

Maybe but who's mixing glycerine & cellulose ???

 

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9 minutes ago, yesbut said:

Huh ? Cellulose ??

All these paper, cardboard, overboard type materials can be characterized as wood pulp or cellulose based.

These are the most common materials used but other fibrous materials might be used.

Even polymers, or maybe not  
 

Edited by Philbee

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Lawyers, guns, and money. 😄

.

Nobody except Phil can legally make a staple now.

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7 minutes ago, Alastair said:

Lawyers, guns, and money. 😄

.

Nobody except Phil can legally make a staple now.

As the intelligent man that you are I doubt that you really believe that,

My advice would be that if you are really concerned about what you can and cant do then seek some advice.

I view your reference to guns as mischievous and irrelevant.  

 

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Bloody  hell they're at it again 😣

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3 hours ago, Alastair said:

The my way is the best way people, are normally not far past the beginning of their beekeeping journey.

So when are you going to write/publish your encyclopaedia epitome?

 

 

I am referring to beekeeping.  I won't mention a lot of s..t that I could mention.  

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Gosh Maggie, chill some. I don't even dare write / publish queen breeding encyclopedia epitome. Heck i can't even spell the word. 😉

 

And Phil lawyers guns and money is a quote from a Warren Zevon song which was intended to inject some humour, I am sure you are aware of that.

 

Ya both had bad coffee this morning i think. 😎

 

And Yesbut, I've been trying to avoid saying this cos I like you. But you are a pot stirrer.

Edited by Alastair
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45 minutes ago, yesbut said:

Bloody  hell they're at it again 😣

It's entertaining !

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38 minutes ago, Grant said:

In which case stop using the topic discussion as a way to protect your IP, then perhaps everyone can carry on discussing how they wish to proceed with their home made alternatives. 

In order that everyone can carry on discussing their home made alternatives they will benefit from an understanding of the limitations.
That's one point .

Another point is that nothing justifies sensationalism with regard gun ownership.

I would have expected better leadership from you Grant

 

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Phil if you want people to understand your limitations, then say what your patent covers. Demanding people go ask their lawyer just is not fair cop when you have the ability to just say so here.

 

Continuously hinting about this or that just isn't good enough.

 

Lay it out, then be done with it.

 

We can then discuss our home made alternatives without being constantly interrupted to be told what we can't do.

Edited by Alastair
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In my simple mind anything to do with gib staples is Phil's IP, anything else is a free for all.  

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That's not what I have gathered from the little hints and clues he has dropped so far.

 

He has said he wants us to understand his limitations. If he really does, he has an obligation to explain them.

 

At this point he has the idea that anyone making a staple has to first go consult their lawyer. At least that is what he has several times told me to do. Not gonna fly with me, and not gonna fly with the beekeeping community.

Edited by Alastair

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3 hours ago, Philbee said:

Another point is that nothing justifies sensationalism with regard gun ownership.

I would have expected better leadership from you Grant

 

Probably good to stick to beekeeping on a b3ekeeping forum though eh

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1 hour ago, CraBee said:

In my simple mind anything to do with gib staples is Phil's IP, anything else is a free for all.  

That about sums it up.
However,

My IP does not include anything to do with OA/GL or any other chemicals.

It does not have any exclusion rights whatsoever over what beekeepers may construct for non commercial use.

It does however have a strong focus on using stitch and other barriers to chewing

 

 

 

 

Its probably worth noting also that there really is no such thing as a Gib staple
"Gib" is a Trade Mark belonging to Winstone Wall Boards and a Staple is a descriptive term relating to a U shape.

Its a device with no name.

Its not reasonable to expect Winstones Wall Boards to tolerate this use of their Brand and I consciously refrain from it .

 

Edited by Philbee

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OK so let's get this clarified in plain English so we can move on.

 

5 hours ago, CraBee said:

In my simple mind anything to do with gib staples is Phil's IP, anything else is a free for all.  

 

3 hours ago, Philbee said:

That about sums it up.

 

Means staples made from gib tape are covered, anything else is a free for all.

 

Why all the talk of cellulose?

 

3 hours ago, Philbee said:

It does however have a strong focus on using stitch and other barriers to chewing

 

Please elaborate. In plain English. I still have no idea why you told me the particular sewing machine i nearly bought was not allowed. 

 

I want to understand all this properly.

 

Don't say it doesn't matter for private use because although I am making them for my own use because i can't buy any,  if i end up with a product that works well i may well distribute to a few friends and would not want your lawyers all over me for doing so.

 

Or even better, can you provide a link to the actual patent.

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I bin thinking.

 

Phil owns the IP on the staples.

There is no doubt he has very cleverly taken four off the shelf ingredients ..... Gib, thread, O/A and Glycerine and made them into a product.

 

My thinking is ....does Speights hold the patent on Beer, or Ford the patent on the motorcar, or me on my design of shed ?

The patent on the staple is supposed to protect the designers IP so he can make a dollar on it,   but in reality all you gotta do is make the staple slightly longer, paint it pink or print yer name on it ..... and there ya go....... Alistair owns the IP on  an Alistaple ..... or Crabee on a Crabbystaple .....

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