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Oxalic and glycerine

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1 minute ago, Alastair said:

 

That simple question, is essentially what I have spent the last several pages trying to get an answer to. 😉

 

Or more precisely, why is it not getting in the food, in some peoples hives.

Randy Oliver has problems with glycerine with wet shop towels 

 

Did you scrape the staples dry before placement ? 

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On 7/11/2019 at 11:25 AM, JohnF said:

 

*cough*   really?  :10_wink:

Oh dear @jamesc  i do have to say that if you had sent your samples to @JohnF your results would be available ages ago.  My results from John have always be fast.

 

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2 minutes ago, M4tt said:

Did you scrape the staples dry before placement ? 

 

No. Was I supposed to?

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Just now, Alastair said:

 

No. Was I supposed to?

Yup . 
 

Scrape of all the excess moisture on the side of a box between your gloved hand . 
 

The crystallised staples don’t appear to be a problem but the wet ones certainly are . They need to be dry 

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4 minutes ago, Alastair said:

 

No. Was I supposed to?

:IMG_0380:

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Sheesh, that's what I've been doing, sticking nice wet ones in thinking I'm giving those mites a good dosing.

 

Can't wait for written instructions. 

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On ‎7‎/‎11‎/‎2019 at 5:58 PM, jamesc said:

 ..... but we need science to lead the way.....

 

Oooh, science ! Sorry I'm late

 

On ‎7‎/‎11‎/‎2019 at 6:46 PM, M4tt said:

We actually need to get some uniformity with our experiments and actually collect and test the dead bees that are excessive , to either rule a cause out , or confirm it .

They would also be best tested at the same place 

@JohnF would be the most obvious candidate for doing the job and collating data, to me 

 

Are there dead bees @Alastair and others? It would be useful if those affected wrote a case history of a typical hive  eg. 3 weeks ago, 2 boxes - now down to handful of bees with food, pollen on board. Queen-right? Being robbed? Not being robbed?  etc

 

On ‎7‎/‎11‎/‎2019 at 6:48 PM, Alastair said:

The tests are a waste of time but i'll just do it anyway.

 

I'd be more worried that they'd be a waste of money. We don't like testing unless there is a good reason to do it or something suspicious

 

12 hours ago, M4tt said:

Some time back , I sent mites to @JohnF from a heavy infestation from one of my Apivar failure hives .

All that could be said was the mites didn’t have the markers for resistance to Apivar .


*cough*  Whispers: "Bayvarol @M4tt, not Apivar. We test for resistance mutations for Bayvarol/Apistan"

 

1 hour ago, M4tt said:

Im just pointing this out because it is a simple management difference which might be affecting something . If there was good brood in the second box, amongst the good food , I’m fairly certain there would be more bees in that hive 

As far as I’m aware the shotgun pattern is bees eating eggs for protein 

 

Can also be due to pathogens - a recent paper was mentioned here where shotgun brood queens shifted onto new frames started laying up a storm. So 'queen problems' might actually be pathogen/comb problems. Oksana Borowik wrote a good review of this in a recent NZ Beekeeper issue

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1 minute ago, Alastair said:

Sheesh, that's what I've been doing, sticking nice wet ones in thinking I'm giving those mites a good dosing.

 

Can't wait for written instructions. 

Yikes .

 

Looks like we’ve all learned something out of all of this . 
 

 

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Long road getting there, but just maybe, we hit the jackpot! 😎

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Just now, Alastair said:

Long road getting there, but just maybe, we hit the jackpot! 😎

Now we need to ask @jamesc  how wet his staples were....

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If memory serves, wasn't there a weight even for the 'squeezed' staples?

@Alastair and @jamesc do you have the document that reviewed the first 100-odd pages of the thread? Is there a permalink for it somewhere??

 

(have not used the staples before)

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4 minutes ago, Alastair said:

Long road getting there, but just maybe, we hit the jackpot! 😎

Happy to help 😉.

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5 minutes ago, JohnF said:

I'd be more worried that they'd be a waste of money. We don't like testing unless there is a good reason to do it or something suspicious

 

John I sent you an email last night, I didn't know your personal email so just sent it to dnature, attn JohnF, could you please look out for it?

 

5 minutes ago, JohnF said:

I'd be more worried that they'd be a waste of money. We don't like testing unless there is a good reason to do it or something suspicious

 

Well Phil thinks it is very important so I'll go ahead, just to see what use he can make of the results once they are in. I also don't know what should be tested for and the lab will no doubt want to know, could Phil advise on that please?

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Wet and dry staples were discussed many pages ago on this thread, and how we killed bees when we first used them “wet” that brood pattern IMO is food related.. as in there is no natural forage available and the resulting brood pattern. 

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16 minutes ago, fieldbee said:

Oh dear @jamesc  i do have to say that if you had sent your samples to @JohnF your results would be available ages ago.  My results from John have always be fast.

 

 

So what is the conclusion here?   @jamesc posted about how he'd had major Winter failures using the staples, then bees were sent away for analysis, and something has been detected in the bees - eg cororopa? but @jamesc is not prepared to share that information and just let the staples take the blame?  

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1 hour ago, Alastair said:

 

My thoughts also. In fact there was something i noticed today. I worked 5 OA treated sites, around 75 hives total. The first 3 sites were rubbish, then the last 2 were pretty good compared to what I'm used to lately, some even trying to swarm. And there was a difference, which was that the last 2 sites have had a drizzle of nectar coming in through most of the treatment period, where the other sites have been living on stores.

interesting, and gold value. Turns my theory based on nil data to dust, and that's the point. My theory/idea was that the difference between access to stores vs relying on syrup was the issue. The nectar in vs stores is similar, but different. I'll create the thread of possible inputs this weekned.

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2 minutes ago, JohnF said:

If memory serves, wasn't there a weight even for the 'squeezed' staples?

@Alastair and @jamesc do you have the document that reviewed the first 100-odd pages of the thread? Is there a permalink for it somewhere??

 

(have not used the staples before)

 

As I recall it staples weight is 10g and it contains 20g of solution to a total 30g (roughly something like that anyway).  Of that 20g - 40% is OA and 60%G.

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5 minutes ago, Stoney said:

Wet and dry staples were discussed many pages ago on this thread, and how we killed bees when we first used them “wet” that brood pattern IMO is food related.. as in there is no natural forage available and the resulting brood pattern. 

 

Oh that's interesting cos when I talked about shotgun brood a few weeks back you and Phil denied it, never seen such a thing you said, and prefered to go on about your "big thumper" hives. 

 

But now you remember it had already been previously discussed. My problem was real the whole time. 😠

Edited by Alastair
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6 minutes ago, JohnF said:

If memory serves, wasn't there a weight even for the 'squeezed' staples?

@Alastair and @jamesc do you have the document that reviewed the first 100-odd pages of the thread? Is there a permalink for it somewhere??

 

(have not used the staples before)

 

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8 minutes ago, Alastair said:

 

John I sent you an email last night, I didn't know your personal email so just sent it to dnature, attn JohnF, could you please look out for it?

 

 

Well Phil thinks it is very important so I'll go ahead, just to see what use he can make of the results once they are in. I also don't know what should be tested for and the lab will no doubt want to know, could Phil advise on that please?

 

All good Alastair, have replied to you. Rapidly dwindling hives we'd test for nosemas (both N. ceranae and N. apis) as well as Lotmaria.

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Always firmly drag the strips across the rim of the bucket to remove excess ingredient. 70% GL in a Staple that is not properly drained is a lot of water attracting potential. That Staple should weighed no more than 30g. Note that a Staple with 30% OA/70% GL is now considered an inappropriate, low strength by both @Philbee and others

 

 

(copied from above link )

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2 minutes ago, Alastair said:

 

Oh that's interesting cos when I talked about shotgun brood a few weeks back you and Phil denied it, never seen such a thing you said, and prefered to go on about your "big thumper" hives. 

Correct, I’ve not seen a patchy brood pattern caused by staples... patchy brood patterns in my hives are IMO caused by other issues. Queens, virus (old comb) nutrition, 

If youre ever south of the border Alistair  I’d welcome a visit from you and happily spend a day swinging the hive tools around some of my sites. 

Ive got nothing to hide and have been open and honest with my experiment. 

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3 minutes ago, JohnF said:

 

All good Alastair, have replied to you. Rapidly dwindling hives we'd test for nosemas (both N. ceranae and N. apis) as well as Lotmaria.

 

Sounds good John, just read your email, on point. 😉.

 

I'll wait for input from Phil incase he thinks anything else should also be tested for then I'll reply to the email and set it up or not set it up.

 

Cheers

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11 minutes ago, CraBee said:

 

So what is the conclusion here?   @jamesc posted about how he'd had major Winter failures using the staples, then bees were sent away for analysis, and something has been detected in the bees - eg cororopa? but @jamesc is not prepared to share that information and just let the staples take the blame?  

 

No, because we're all good friends here, I just wanted to make sure the conclusion was that we/dnature hadn't returned the results ! I can put them here but that requires @jamesc's permission.

 

One thing this does highlight though is my comment a short while ago about  beekeepers wanting research for free. There are a number of people who may well be seeing something similar as James or Alastair or others and are wanting to see their results . . .and will apply those results as 'so that's what's happening in my hives'.

I heard on the radio when the Cororapa first broke out and the discovery we made of Lotmaria passim in the country. One beekeeper was blaming this new pathogen for his hive losses. Had he got them tested? No - because we had the only test and he sure hadn't talked with us.

 

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Just now, JohnF said:

I just wanted to make sure the conclusion was that we/dnature hadn't returned the results !

Really ?

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