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Oxalic and glycerine

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45 minutes ago, dansar said:

Trial a couple of apiaries half synthetic and half Oxalic/glycerin gib (or cardboard) strips?

 

I've pretty much done that Dansar, just, not 1/2 and 1/2, the great majority were done with staples but i did 1 or 2 or 3 with bayvarol in most apiaries just so I could compare. 

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11 hours ago, Philbee said:

If this hive is such an outlier, why are your using it as an example?

I guess because it is just that ..... an example of what was a live hive , treated as all the others ..... but never made it.  A strong hive will rise above and defeat  the wax moth ....

There are many factors that might have affected it. Disease, queenless, starvation ..... BUT ..... as they went into the dew each and every hive was checked ..... for disease, eggs , mite,and feed .  

It's just another one of lifes big mysteries.

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11 hours ago, jamesc said:

I guess because it is just that ..... an example of what was a live hive , treated as all the others ..... but never made it.  A strong hive will rise above and defeat  the wax moth ....

There are many factors that might have affected it. Disease, queenless, starvation ..... BUT ..... as they went into the dew each and every hive was checked ..... for disease, eggs , mite,and feed .  

It's just another one of lifes big mysteries.

Are you sure that is not a summer treated Hive  (January)

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Hi Beekeepers

MPI has just published this Guidance Document which all who participate in this forum should read.

 

Advertising and own-use guidance for  compounds for management of disease in beehives.

Copy attached.

 

You will note that MPI considers Varroa destructor as a disease - see cover, then as a parasite in paragraph 5 page 3 and as a pest in 3.1.1.(1) a page 4.

 

Note Section 4 is similar to what has been previously published in The Beekeeper earlier this year.

Advertising-and-own-use-guidance-beekeepers(1).pdf

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@Don Mac, in your opinion , does this new set of guidelines make this thread illegal, in that the published  findings of users could be deemed to be advertising ?

 

Given this thread was published before the new ‘testimonial’ section was written , where does that sit ?

 

 

I presume they can’t prosecute retrospectively of the date on the document ? 
 

These questions need definitive answers 

Edited by M4tt

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53 minutes ago, Philbee said:

Are you sure that is not a summer treated Hive  (January)

For sure ... it was treated in january as we took honey off.

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6 minutes ago, yesbut said:

 

This whole thing sits in the outrageously typical beaureacratic crapola pile. MPI is far happier dictating don'ts than actually being helpful. Ggrrrr. We'll all have to have a permit to fart soon.  

Yep totally agree .

 

MPI being helpful would be a darn sight more helpful 

 

😡 

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4 minutes ago, Philbee said:

Its entirely possible that MPI have been put in a difficult position and my advice would be dont poke the Bear

party pooper

Edited by Pinnacle
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52 minutes ago, yesbut said:

We'll all have to have a permit to fart soon.  

If the greens and Labour have their way then yes

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This thread is about oxalic acid / glycerine, not a specific product.

Also, as it is not about a product, people's observations are just that, not testimonials.

So, :IMG_0380:

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23 minutes ago, CraBee said:

This thread is about oxalic acid / glycerine, not a specific product.

Also, as it is not about a product, people's observations are just that, not testimonials.

So, :IMG_0380:

Im all for referring to the popular soakage device as a "Paper Tape Laminate", or "laminate"

This takes the descriptive aspect to the next level which is really important when having an open discussion forum like this.

 

Edited by Philbee

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48 minutes ago, Philbee said:

Its entirely possible that MPI have been put in a difficult position and my advice would be dont poke the Bear

agree with @Philbee

imagine, for a moment, if the sellers of registered treatments were seeing a significant decline in revenue (or, even worse for them, a stockpile of imported treatments that they've paid for and can't shift, and that are rapidly approaching expiry) directly attributable to oxalic/glycerine (remember, still a non-registered treatment and illegal to sell as a treatment) and made a formal complaint to mpi - they have no choice but to respond in some fashion... and there are definitely people (not in this thread as far as i know) illegally selling pre-soaked strips as a varroa treatment and being noisy about it

Edited by tommy dave

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1 minute ago, tommy dave said:

imagine, for a moment, if the sellers of registered treatments were seeing a significant decline in revenue directly attributable to oxalic/glycerine  and made a formal complaint to mpi - they have no choice but to respond in some fashion... and there are definitely people (not in this thread as far as i know) illegally selling pre-soaked strips as a varroa treatment and being noisy about it

It's hard to imagine anything much happening.

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1 minute ago, yesbut said:

It's hard to imagine anything much happening.

i meant that the published advice could well be the response to such a complaint...

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1 minute ago, tommy dave said:

i meant that the published advice could well be the response to such a complaint...

Ah yes, I wonder if the complainant is on this forum ?

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@Philbee you said that your "X" hive had the staples in from april till recently. Did you do a tongue test? Was there any acid left? How/why did the bees not chew those staples in bits and pieces? What do you think?

 

@Alastair you said that those hives where you added an extra box, hoping the bees will expand the brood, actually shrank. When you added the extra box did you put staples in that box?

I just did the same now in the spring Few of my hives looked like that they'll benefit if there will be an extra box especially because I don't plan to visit them for 4 weeks. So I added the extra box and I put staples into it too. I'll check them in a couple of weeks.

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Yes i put staples in the extra boxes so probably overdosed for the amount of actual bees.

 

Today i checked a site that a while back had big strong hives that were good enough to take packages off at a couple of kilos a hive, today the hives have shrunk to a fistful of bees, and I'm writing that site off for any honey production this season i'll be happy just to get them in good shape for winter. I think i overdosed plus had treatment in too long, I'm now convinced oxalic can hurt the bees and it's super important not to overdose.

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6 hours ago, Alastair said:

Yes i put staples in the extra boxes so probably overdosed for the amount of actual bees.

 

Today i checked a site that a while back had big strong hives that were good enough to take packages off at a couple of kilos a hive, today the hives have shrunk to a fistful of bees, and I'm writing that site off for any honey production this season i'll be happy just to get them in good shape for winter. I think i overdosed plus had treatment in too long, I'm now convinced oxalic can hurt the bees and it's super important not to overdose.

 

@Alastair have you analysed those bees left in the hive for nosema ceranae.  If the hive has shrunk rapidly to a Queen and a handful of bees you are looking at the same symptoms of Coromandel Colony Collapse. There has been reports of a number of hives experiencing nosema ceranae this season in the North Island and the only way to find out is to have the bees analysed by a Lab.  If you are not measuring and monitoring with all the tool boxes available to a beekeeper, you are only guessing.

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@Don Machave you heard of similar experiences out of the South Island ?

@jamesc have you had any results back yet ?

Edited by frazzledfozzle

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