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Oxalic and glycerine

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35 minutes ago, CraBee said:

 

Do you work in a government or related role?

And if you do , how is it ok to keep selling ineffective product without a money back guarantee .  

 

Politics . Usually misses the point 😉.

 

If they were really interested , they’d quickly jump in with support 

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4 hours ago, Stoney said:

I’ve not used oxalic /syrup drizzle before but is this effect also noted when bees are dribbled? 

Yeah, was thinking the same thing.

I dribbled mid Winter. Not much brood so hard to judge. The dribble is short exposure, compared to strips. 

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4 hours ago, M4tt said:

And if you do , how is it ok to keep selling ineffective product without a money back guarantee .  

 

Politics . Usually misses the point 😉.

 

If they were really interested , they’d quickly jump in with support 

I must be thick.  This sub-set of posts is totally over my head.

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30 minutes ago, Gino de Graaf said:

Yeah, was thinking the same thing.

I dribbled mid Winter. Not much brood so hard to judge. The dribble is short exposure, compared to strips. 

My experience with big staple chewing thumper colonies shows no signs of shotgun brood patterns or any negative effects at all other than where some of them remove the comb to avoid the wide staple. 

 

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2 hours ago, yesbut said:

I must be thick.  This sub-set of posts is totally over my head.

 No I doubt it. It’s more likely my delivery was off. It wasn’t overly important .

 

 

 

6 hours ago, M4tt said:

And if you do , how is it ok to keep selling ineffective product without a money back guarantee .  

 

Politics . Usually misses the point 😉.

 

If they were really interested , they’d quickly jump in with support 

Apivar is sold as killing 99% of mites . I was suggesting a money back guarantee if those rates were not achieved 

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2 hours ago, yesbut said:

I must be thick.

 

I'll leave this for Trev.

 

3 hours ago, yesbut said:

This sub-set of posts is totally over my head.

 

This is the post below that many of the oblique responses stem from. As I understood it the suggestion is that Phil is locked up and we weren't ever allowed to develop OAG strips, totally illegal apparently for us to do it as we have been.

 

20 hours ago, tommy dave said:

not my job to deal with illegally selling soaked strips as a complete treatment though - figure nobody would be that stupid

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24 minutes ago, ChrisM said:

This is the post below that many of the oblique responses stem from. As I understood it the suggestion is that Phil is locked up and we weren't ever allowed to develop OAG strips, totally illegal apparently for us to do it as we have been.

What's this all about please @Philbee   ?

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27 minutes ago, ChrisM said:

 

 

 

 

This is the post below that many of the oblique responses stem from. As I understood it the suggestion is that Phil is locked up and we weren't ever allowed to develop OAG strips, totally illegal apparently for us to do it as we have been.

 

Yes , that is the post . 

 

To me it it would be very short sighted to chop the head off innovation just as it was getting the  results we all really need. The Effective Control of Varroa

Edited by M4tt
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8 hours ago, CraBee said:

 

Do you work in a government or related role?

;) nothing to do with beekeeping so doesn't really matter eh.

7 hours ago, M4tt said:

And if you do , how is it ok to keep selling ineffective product without a money back guarantee .  

 

Politics . Usually misses the point 😉.

 

If they were really interested , they’d quickly jump in with support 

agree. I'm not a politician

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I believe there is nothing illegal with this system, I am running a 2 part oxalic acid varroa treatment experiment on my hives... and openly communicating the results as I see them and as they happen.

 

So after opening hundreds and hundreds of hives so far this season I’ve hardly seen a mite.. that feels pretty good. 

What I have seen is a very fast build up of very clean bees on a seriously solid willow flow, my boots are soaked at the end of the day with nectar from the brood frames I’m inspecting..  while grinning like a fat cat. 

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46 minutes ago, ChrisM said:

This is the post below that many of the oblique responses stem from. As I understood it the suggestion is that Phil is locked up and we weren't ever allowed to develop OAG strips, totally illegal apparently for us to do it as we have been.

 

phil and others have often in this thread very thoroughly pointed out that anyone mixing up and using a non-approved treatment is using it as experimental etc earlier in the thread, and someone - can't remember who - linked the relevant rules and regs about why it's ok to do so, but illegal to sell soaked strips as a varroa treatment.

If people are using the treatment and don't understand that, well, that's the way things go. Sorry I wasn't clearer about what the locking up should be about - it would be illegal sale of an unapproved animal medicine/purpose combination. Selling the ingredients and the strips as an unsoaked package is an elegant way around that.

 

I'm very impressed by the experimental work that phil has been doing.

26 minutes ago, M4tt said:

Yes , that is the post . 

 

To me it it would be very short sighted to chop the head off innovation just as it was getting the  results we all really need. The Effective Control of Varroa

agree - in hindsight i should have simply got in touch with phil some other way and let him know that people were publicly stating that he was selling them the strips pre-soaked.

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3 minutes ago, tommy dave said:

 

I'm very impressed by the experimental work that phil has been doing.

Agree.. There are commercial beekeepers around here and I’m included that after last seasons issues would potentially not have been giving the kids much on the old dinner plate but for honeydew sandwiches... and she’s a bit runny for the Sammy option.... 

 

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10 hours ago, Stoney said:

Agree.. There are commercial beekeepers around here and I’m included that after last seasons issues would potentially not have been giving the kids much on the old dinner plate but for honeydew sandwiches... and she’s a bit runny for the Sammy option.... 

 

You gotta put it on the pancakes and  wild pork bro.

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54 minutes ago, jamesc said:

You gotta put it on the pancakes and  wild pork bro.

For sure paddy.... pretty darn good on vanilla ice cream and fruit as well as in the bowl of weetbix . 

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21 hours ago, tommy dave said:

phil and others have often in this thread very thoroughly pointed out that anyone mixing up and using a non-approved treatment is using it as experimental etc earlier in the thread, and someone - can't remember who - linked the relevant rules and regs about why it's ok to do so, but illegal to sell soaked strips as a varroa treatment.

If people are using the treatment and don't understand that, well, that's the way things go. Sorry I wasn't clearer about what the locking up should be about - it would be illegal sale of an unapproved animal medicine/purpose combination. Selling the ingredients and the strips as an unsoaked package is an elegant way around that.

 

I'm very impressed by the experimental work that phil has been doing.

agree - in hindsight i should have simply got in touch with phil some other way and let him know that people were publicly stating that he was selling them the strips pre-soaked.

Phill is selling dry staples, you are allowed to ask him to soak them in a mix of whatever at whatever ratios for you for ease of the system at your instruction and responsibility, if he wants to charge extra for his time to follow your instructions thats all ok as well, it is all on you not Phill.

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52 minutes ago, Dennis Crowley said:

Phill is selling dry staples, you are allowed to ask him to soak them in a mix of whatever at whatever ratios for you for ease of the system at your instruction and responsibility, if he wants to charge extra for his time to follow your instructions that's all ok as well, it is all on you not Phill.

Thanks @Dennis Crowley Very well put.

 

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On 11/10/2019 at 5:59 PM, Dennis Crowley said:

Phill is selling dry staples, you are allowed to ask him to soak them in a mix of whatever at whatever ratios for you for ease of the system at your instruction and responsibility, if he wants to charge extra for his time to follow your instructions thats all ok as well, it is all on you not Phill.

did a little more digging. Unfortunately many buying pre-soaked don't understand this... they think they're buying oa strips as a varroa treatment. Nothing more, nothing less. If asked about instruction etc, they'd have no clue what you're talking about. The elegant solution only works if both parties involved know and understand the deal. Hopefully it's not investigated and all continues well

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5 minutes ago, tommy dave said:

did a little more digging. Unfortunately many buying pre-soaked don't understand this... they think they're buying oa strips as a varroa treatment. Nothing more, nothing less. If asked about instruction etc, they'd have no clue what you're talking about. The elegant solution only works if both parties involved know and understand the deal. Hopefully it's not investigated and all continues well

Uh Huh ..... the keeping of Bees today has become  a bit more complexed  than it was a few years ago . It's not just a case of whacking the strips and staples in and walking away. One has had to become inquisitive.

Mr Philbee told me a while ago that I had to up my game. I took umbrage at that for a few weeks  as I did'nt really understand his comment .

I do now .

 

Every time I open a hive now I question what is happening in the brood, because if I don't I will be loosing money.

So now we observe, ask questions , and  when in doubt call upon the skills of John F  and his science to help preserve our livestock.

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8 hours ago, tommy dave said:

did a little more digging. Unfortunately many buying pre-soaked don't understand this... they think they're buying oa strips as a varroa treatment. Nothing more, nothing less. If asked about instruction etc, they'd have no clue what you're talking about. The elegant solution only works if both parties involved know and understand the deal. Hopefully it's not investigated and all continues well

What are you trying to stir up.

What is your job at MPI that you are hiding.

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On 10/10/2019 at 4:55 PM, Stoney said:

My experience with big staple chewing thumper colonies shows no signs of shotgun brood patterns or any negative effects at all

 

But most of mine are just average colonies. The "big thumpers" do seem to be less likely to have a shotgun brood pattern but my question was not about that, it was about the ones that do have a shotgun brood pattern.

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11 hours ago, tommy dave said:

did a little more digging. Unfortunately many buying pre-soaked don't understand this... they think they're buying oa strips as a varroa treatment. Nothing more, nothing less. If asked about instruction etc, they'd have no clue what you're talking about. The elegant solution only works if both parties involved know and understand the deal. Hopefully it's not investigated and all continues well

It is made well clear to them when they order the strips, how they choose to explain to their purchase cant be helped and if anyone did chat to Phil about it there would be no issue as he is only doing what he has been asked to do, no law against soaking gib tape in any solution, up to the beekeeper to satisfy authorities about their use of them.

 

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4 hours ago, Trevor Gillbanks said:

What are you trying to stir up.

What is your job at MPI that you are hiding.

i find this very offensive. I am not trying to stir up anything.

also - i do not work at mpi in case that's got anything to do with anything. Satisfied?

1 hour ago, Dennis Crowley said:

It is made well clear to them when they order the strips, how they choose to explain to their purchase cant be helped and if anyone did chat to Phil about it there would be no issue as he is only doing what he has been asked to do, no law against soaking gib tape in any solution, up to the beekeeper to satisfy authorities about their use of them.

 

glad to hear it - sounds like if the purchaser isn't reading the paperwork it's on them

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7 minutes ago, tommy dave said:

i find this very offensive. I am not trying to stir up anything.

also - i do not work at mpi in case that's got anything to do with anything. Satisfied?

glad to hear it - sounds like if the purchaser isn't reading the paperwork it's on them

Tommy you are constantly stirring.

 

Unfortunately being offended doesn’t constitute other members being moderated for no reason. Suck it up, people are allowed to have differing opinions, complain unnecessarily again and I will issue you a warning myself.

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5 minutes ago, Daley said:

Unfortunately being offended doesn’t constitute other members being moderated for no reason. Suck it up, people are allowed to have differing opinions, complain unnecessarily again and I will issue you a warning myself.

fair enough.

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11 hours ago, Alastair said:

 

But most of mine are just average colonies. The "big thumpers" do seem to be less likely to have a shotgun brood pattern but my question was not about that, it was about the ones that do have a shotgun brood pattern.

It’s an interesting observation you have made.. however in my opinion, a shotgun brood pattern is caused from issues un related to ox/gl staples being placed in the hive. 

My question was, do you notice the same effect following an oxalic dribble where the bees have consumed an amount of oxalic acid?.. 

i haven’t used ox dribble before so have no idea of any negative effects observed following a dribble treatment.

 

 

 

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