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Oxalic and glycerine

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Dunno ..... I just chuck em in like yesbut and expect them to work ..... which I guess is why we are chucking in Apitraz .... it seems to work.

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On 18/09/2019 at 6:07 PM, jamesc said:

We placed them right at the ends of the frames , two at each end of the box, several frames apart. As we moved into the autumn and replaced the staples, we started moving them ...... ring fencing the  brood.

Is this what everyone else does?

My 2 cents on this: I put my ones into every seam that contains brood and directly in the middle of each seam of brood. So, not ring fenced but more "bullseye". If I had ring fenced the brood and the brood shrunk going into winter, how would that work? These strips have split the brood so in some hives I only have brood one side of these strips, but zero loss. Anyway, reading about James placement it is about the exact opposite of what I thought "we" were all doing. actually, when I used to use apivar and bayvarol I did the same, never putting them at ends of the hive always putting them in the brood not around the brood.

Is this important?

Obviously I'm not wishing to criticise anyone, I just wanted to get clarification of what others do; if they ring fence brood or just drive straight through?

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1 hour ago, ChrisM said:

Is this what everyone else does?

My 2 cents on this: I put my ones into every seam that contains brood and directly in the middle of each seam of brood. So, not ring fenced but more "bullseye". If I had ring fenced the brood and the brood shrunk going into winter, how would that work? These strips have split the brood so in some hives I only have brood one side of these strips, but zero loss. Anyway, reading about James placement it is about the exact opposite of what I thought "we" were all doing. actually, when I used to use apivar and bayvarol I did the same, never putting them at ends of the hive always putting them in the brood not around the brood.

Is this important?

Obviously I'm not wishing to criticise anyone, I just wanted to get clarification of what others do; if they ring fence brood or just drive straight through?

Straight through the middle was what @Philbee did first . This works fine , but the results are as you described . Others have put them at the ends of frames so as not to disrupt brood. As time moves on and experiments continue , I for one , now put them at the ends of frames , right at the edge of brood . 

Ive actually taken it further than that . As brood moves to a new frame , I move the staple to the next frame of brood , but to the other end of the frame , so my staples are always moving , weekly at the moment . I add staples as the brood expands , and I take them out , or move them if the bees have moved brood off a staple treated frame 

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2 hours ago, M4tt said:

Straight through the middle was what @Philbee did first . This works fine , but the results are as you described . Others have put them at the ends of frames so as not to disrupt brood. As time moves on and experiments continue , I for one , now put them at the ends of frames , right at the edge of brood . 

Ive actually taken it further than that . As brood moves to a new frame , I move the staple to the next frame of brood , but to the other end of the frame , so my staples are always moving , weekly at the moment . I add staples as the brood expands , and I take them out , or move them if the bees have moved brood off a staple treated frame 

Matt has touched on an important aspect of Beekeeping and one of the secrets to success.

The best Beekeepers, the ones who get through each season with the best results and see those results roll into the next season are those who spend the most time each month at their sites.
Those who expect a lot from their Bees also put the most back into their Bees.
There are no short cuts

One of the highlights of being Philbee has been that Ive developed solid relationships with some world class beekeepers and Beekeeping outfits

They know who they are

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30 minutes ago, Philbee said:

Matt has touched on an important aspect of Beekeeping and one of the secrets to success.

The best Beekeepers, the ones who get through each season with the best results and see those results roll into the next season are those who spend the most time each month at their sites.
Those who expect a lot from their Bees also put the most back into their Bees.
There are no short cuts

One of the highlights of being Philbee has been that Ive developed solid relationships with some world class beekeepers and Beekeeping outfits

They know who they are

I’d go so far as to say one of those world class beekeepers lives and works around Taupo .

You know who you are 😉

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8 minutes ago, M4tt said:

I’d go so far as to say one of those world class beekeepers lives and works around Taupo .

You know who you are 😉

A humble servant 

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4 hours ago, ChrisM said:

Is this what everyone else does?

My 2 cents on this: I put my ones into every seam that contains brood and directly in the middle of each seam of brood. So, not ring fenced but more "bullseye". If I had ring fenced the brood and the brood shrunk going into winter, how would that work? These strips have split the brood so in some hives I only have brood one side of these strips, but zero loss. Anyway, reading about James placement it is about the exact opposite of what I thought "we" were all doing. actually, when I used to use apivar and bayvarol I did the same, never putting them at ends of the hive always putting them in the brood not around the brood.

Is this important?

Obviously I'm not wishing to criticise anyone, I just wanted to get clarification of what others do; if they ring fence brood or just drive straight through?

Got my impressive results by putting strips in the middle of the brood, and shifting with the brood movement.  Found that brood was right up to each side of the (chewed) strips which didn't seem to worry them too much.

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9 minutes ago, Beehaving said:

Got my impressive results by putting strips in the middle of the brood, and shifting with the brood movement.  Found that brood was right up to each side of the (chewed) strips which didn't seem to worry them too much.

That's what we did too, but I take comments from Matt and will try that.

Did you treat singles FD or  doubles 3/4? I was treating with the strips going to the floor on both sides of the comb (600mm long strips on jumbo depth). I'm wondering if the splitting of the brood might be less if my strips were 50mm shorter on each side to allow the queen to tranverse the comb to the other side more easily? Most are using 400mm long strips so maybe the answer to that is already known but I missed it (?).

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EEDABD42-0C5D-4921-8BC5-58D77C2391D8.jpeg

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I’ve done a combination of the above staple positions. And my observations are that right through the middle kills more brood, but in winter is most likely to contact some brood at all times. However, if run through the middle in spring it will cause a disruption to the queens nest and potentially slow things down on the buildup. 

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Well I'll tell ya what .... this beekeeping has got me bluffed.

Been doin' it for thirty plus years and this year is gonna be one of the toughest .... particularly when opening up hives about to hit a willow flow that look like this.

So .... this queen is up for sale ..... overwintered and ready to go ..... only she got nowhere to go. 

 

 

I've said it it before, and I'll say it again, I am totally bluffed as to what is going on. We pulled a truck load of 96 survivors out of the dew six weeks ago .....another 50% of those survivors have dwindled and died.

This has to be more than an O/A malfunction, and I 'd be interested to get a an idea from some of the Greatest Beekeepers in the world.

PS .. you need to check out the photo above ChCH Paul !

Edited by jamesc

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6 minutes ago, jamesc said:

EEDABD42-0C5D-4921-8BC5-58D77C2391D8.jpeg

that'll be ready for pollination soon.

 

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By comparison, we worked another yard of 32 hives earlier in the morning.  All coming along nicely for the time of year and almost ready to pull four  nucs a hive from . Those hives came from up at home here where we are pretty backward farmers ant threw the sparay tank into the big hole a few years ago.

Now I 'aint pointing fingers here, but all the crap hives came back from the Coast last February ..... where I know they had a big dump of .... 1080.

7 minutes ago, Dennis Crowley said:

that'll be ready for pollination soon.

 

Yeah Nah .....  a hundy for an overwintered queen should pay a few bills

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12 minutes ago, jamesc said:

 

I've said it it before, and I'll say it again, I am totally bluffed as to what is going on. We pulled a truck load of 96 survivors out of the dew six weeks ago .....another 50% of those survivors have dwindled and died.

This has to be more than an O/A malfunction, and I 'd be interested to get a an idea from some of the Greatest Beekeepers in the world.

Mate I recon the extended period up in the beech forest on the Dew that stuffed em... simple as that..

anything at work we left in the bush into April looked like rubbish. 

Gorse pollen or no gorse pollen .. that goo ain’t too good on them and I think that’ only applies to bees moved into it.. permanent bees don’t seem to rob it off the trees but just tick away at it.. 

now 30 yrs ago I was wearing a high school uniform while you were harvesting Dew but there ya go.. that’s my thought. 

You can blame staples or 1080 or whatever but my moneys on the Dew.. they worked themselves to death. 

Thoughts...?? 

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Lotsa thoughts .... I hear you when you talk about the Dew..... it trickles in over the winter and fills the brood leaving no space to lay, which is why we winter as doubles  and take care to leave empty frames in late summer for enthusiastic mothers....   but lotsa other yards on the dew are stonking now.  Young queens should keep the brood open during the winter .....

Interesting that MPI wont give me a copy of my test results.

I also watched an interesting U tube video this afternoon posted by an English gentleman. He commented that Varroa was'nt the issue to bees, it was the external factors of their habitat .

But hey .... I follow that conspiracy theory ....

Edited by jamesc

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37 minutes ago, jamesc said:

1080

Hmmmmm.......

 

Now there’s an interesting thought 😳. Maybe you’re onto something there

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Of my two hives at home the staples did affect  brood placement . They were winter hives .

But the hive I moved down the rd into the hakea that  filled a box of capped honey behaved like a summer hive and the strips did not affect the brood pattern .

The queen layed underneath .

This hive was bursting with bees which would have kept it warm and dry .

Maybe its a temperature thing .

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1 hour ago, Dennis Crowley said:

that'll be ready for pollination soon.

 

There’s a few too many eggs  in them cells for my liking.. there’s a thought.. a dozen bee eggs ..  could be the next big craze .. 

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Hundred buck queen mate.

But yes,    your right .....  lotsa queen problems this year.

5 minutes ago, jamesc said:

Hundred buck queen mate.

But yes,    your right .....  lotsa queen problems this year.

Main Man and I paused for a cup of tea this afternoon and made the comment that it was almost like a lot of the queens had gone sterile. Multiple eggs, laying workers, drone layers ..... you name it , we saw it.

Edited by jamesc

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1 hour ago, jamesc said:

EEDABD42-0C5D-4921-8BC5-58D77C2391D8.jpeg

 

Thats's not an OA/Gly treatment problem.  There are multiple eggs in some cells and what looks like sacbrood in the top left of the pic.  Queen problem.

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1 hour ago, jamesc said:

eekeepers in the world.

PS .. you need to check out the photo above ChCH Paul

 

We posted at the same time... 

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Uh Huh ..... but that was'nt the only one ..... there was another 30 of those suckers.   I'm not pointing fingers, but I'm trying to learn because as they say " if you keep doin what you do, you'll get what you did'..... or something like that.

2 minutes ago, CHCHPaul said:

 

We posted at the same time... 

symbiosis.

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Just now, jamesc said:

Uh Huh ..... but that was'nt the only one ..... there was another 30 of those suckers.   I'm not pointing fingers, but I'm trying to learn because as they say " if you keep doin what you do, you'll get what you did'..... or something like that.

Thinking again ......

 

yep , apparently 1080 kills aphids sucking honey dew from trees that have been dumped on . 

Thats not the point though 

 

IF there was 1080 in your stored honey , which is a big IF, then your queen would be dead too , because what does SHE feed on ? Same as the other bees . 

So why is she not dead ? 

 

I have no idea 

 

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5 minutes ago, M4tt said:

Thinking again ......

 

yep , apparently 1080 kills aphids sucking honey dew from trees that have been dumped on . 

Thats not the point though 

 

IF there was 1080 in your stored honey , which is a big IF, then your queen would be dead too , because what does SHE feed on ? Same as the other bees . 

So why is she not dead ? 

 

I have no idea 

 

Good point .

Back to square one.

Mind you ... many of the hives have just diminished and died in the last three weeks. Little slabs of brood,  struggling nicely for the time of  year, and then bees on the floor , a box of honey, dead and gone. Praise the Lord were'nt frigging breeding cows , eh.

I've been having a think about that photo and the multiple eggs.

Two thoughts .... the queen looks quite new, and sometimes new queens spit out lotsa eggs before they settle into the routine.

The second thought was that multiple eggs are a sign of laying workers ....

 

I wonder if something in the Acid, the glycerine or the staples is making the queens sterile  ? 

Edited by jamesc
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I see multiple eggs in Cells pretty regularly in mating nucs that have simply dwindled away.  A vigorous queen but just not enough workers to keep up with her.  In my mind I see it as her getting frustrated and wanting to lay.

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