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Oxalic and glycerine

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45 minutes ago, Alastair said:

 

You have sold it?

 

No

I never owned it.

However NZ will always have it at today's relative prices, Thats a commitment I made a long time ago and is set in stone.

51 minutes ago, Stoney said:

Many yrs ago my mate would cut a strip off his track pants while out in the bush.. but only one leg at a time.

It was purely hilarious to see one pant leg gradually get shorter til it was shorts length before he started on the other side.. 

the looks he would get in the petrol station still makes me laugh..  

I remember back to my professional hunting days, heading to the gas station in the landrover after a week in the bush.
On the way Id be clutching my money in trembling hands in anticipation of a chocolate fix.

Im not sure if this was normal due to a week of hard work or somehow due to a previous life of too much sugar

 

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5 hours ago, nikki watts said:

From the SNI beekeepers newsletter.

’Oxalic staples need to be replaced after a month, and the oxalic burns the pads off the feet of the bees. ‘

Care to comment @Philbee

 

It’s going to be tricky getting those little red bands onto their feet. Do you think they should be steel capped for worksafe?

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32 minutes ago, Josh said:

 

It’s going to be tricky getting those little red bands onto their feet. Do you think they should be steel capped for worksafe?

Put the burnt Bees in the Manuka
Put the story on the label

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@Josh, I can remember Turkeys in gummies...now that's a fair way back!

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Watched the bees coming and going from the hives containing staples they all still appear to have their feet!     🥾👣🐾👣🐾👠

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OK ..... seeing as we are on a roll here I might as well have a  gripe about o/a.

The gripe has been brewing for a while.

 

Many have had great success with o/a, and have been happy to share their experiences.

What baffles me is that we have had a total disaster with the acid ..... and I am happy to share that.

 

Progress is not made without risk. And we took a risk. And it backfired. And I don't know why, when so many have had great success.

 

So my gripe is that no one really seems to care or want to have a debrief and find out what went wrong.

 

Now, if I was marketing a product that had the potential to revolutionise the way we treat Varroa, I would be saying to the success stories, "great, I am happy" .... but I would be really concerned about the Nay Sayers, and want to find out what went wrong.

 

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4 minutes ago, jamesc said:

 

 

So my gripe is that no one really seems to care or want to have a debrief and find out what went wrong.

 

Now, if I was marketing a product that had the potential to revolutionise the way we treat Varroa, I would be saying to the success stories, "great, I am happy" .... but I would be really concerned about the Nay Sayers, and want to find out what went wrong.

 

Ok here's what to do....@Philbee uses his contacts to arrange a hotel suite in Wellington. He will attend @Stoney and @jamesc at these rooms along with @Trevor Gillbanks who will facilitate the discussion between two nearly  adjoining beeks at opposite ends of the success spectrum and the treatment developer. 

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12 minutes ago, jamesc said:

OK ..... seeing as we are on a roll here I might as well have a  gripe about o/a.

The gripe has been brewing for a while.

 

Many have had great success with o/a, and have been happy to share their experiences.

What baffles me is that we have had a total disaster with the acid ..... and I am happy to share that.

 

Progress is not made without risk. And we took a risk. And it backfired. And I don't know why, when so many have had great success.

 

So my gripe is that no one really seems to care or want to have a debrief and find out what went wrong.

 

Now, if I was marketing a product that had the potential to revolutionise the way we treat Varroa, I would be saying to the success stories, "great, I am happy" .... but I would be really concerned about the Nay Sayers, and want to find out what went wrong.

 

Bit of a dumb statement. I for one tried to make sense of it. Gave some suggestions of possible causes. Its a really bad outcome for you, and contrary to your belief some care. 

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2 minutes ago, yesbut said:

Ok here's what to do....@Philbee uses his contacts to arrange a hotel suite in Wellington. He will attend @Stoney and @jamesc at these rooms along with @Trevor Gillbanks who will facilitate the discussion between two nearly  adjoining beeks at opposite ends of the success spectrum and the treatment developer. 

Sweet .... whose paying. I don't like to travel cheap anymore.

 I think it needs something more structured than that.

Mite counts, interval of treating, checking concentration in strips , other external factors.

 

It just intrigues me when I read posts that report ....' I opened my hives yesterday that were last treated in may and they look really good' ..... but then of course what you consider good I might consider as being beyond hope.

It's not dumb .... really ..... if we are serious about O/A ..... and we are ..... then we need to learn from our mistakes and find out why it did'nt work for us ...... and there are way smarter people out there than me who have the mindset, the nouse   to do that.

And dare I say it, those people are actively  promoting their product as a workable alternative to synthetics.  To do that, it needs to be effective for 90% of the users, not 50%.

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22 minutes ago, jamesc said:

OK ..... seeing as we are on a roll here I might as well have a  gripe about o/a.

The gripe has been brewing for a while.

 

Many have had great success with o/a, and have been happy to share their experiences.

What baffles me is that we have had a total disaster with the acid ..... and I am happy to share that.

 

Progress is not made without risk. And we took a risk. And it backfired. And I don't know why, when so many have had great success.

 

So my gripe is that no one really seems to care or want to have a debrief and find out what went wrong.

 

Now, if I was marketing a product that had the potential to revolutionise the way we treat Varroa, I would be saying to the success stories, "great, I am happy" .... but I would be really concerned about the Nay Sayers, and want to find out what went wrong.

 

 

@jamesc is making a very reasonable request, but I suspect the body of knowledge (as apposed to the volume of opinion) is not there yet to answer the question he's asking. @Philbee's current study will start the body of knowledge. Currently we have a lot of observation and opinion which isn't enough to retrospectively review and understand apparent outliers like @jamesc

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1 hour ago, jamesc said:

Sweet .... whose paying. I don't like to travel cheap anymore.

 I think it needs something more structured than that.

Mite counts, interval of treating, checking concentration in strips , other external factors.

 

It just intrigues me when I read posts that report ....' I opened my hives yesterday that were last treated in may and they look really good' ..... but then of course what you consider good I might consider as being beyond hope.

It's not dumb .... really ..... if we are serious about O/A ..... and we are ..... then we need to learn from our mistakes and find out why it did'nt work for us ...... and there are way smarter people out there than me who have the mindset, the nouse   to do that.

And dare I say it, those people are actively  promoting their product as a workable alternative to synthetics.  To do that, it needs to be effective for 90% of the users, not 50%.

You’ve got to be a bit careful here . 

When mixing your own solution and soaking , you can bet your bottom dollar that it won’t be the same way others have done it , so there is room for error there , that cannot be pointed at the supplier of blank staples .

The other thing is methodology of use . Because there are many ways to apply them , timing of the start of treatment , unexplained pathogens , and winter management of staples , there is little consistency amongst users, so again , the finger cannot be pointed at the supplier of the blank staples . 

I also need to add that I am surrounded by a variety of breaks who lose hives while experimenting with OA/Gl on cardboard , as well as synthetics .

I know for fact that it’s a combination of wrong timing , wrong synthetic , I could go on , and I have not had any losses that I can contribute to using staples 

And my bees are in exactly the same environment as theirs . I just Manage them differently 

Edited by Trevor Gillbanks
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So many variables. I used the Gibs also, late summer while putting in cells. Fail. 

Terrible queen matings. Dwindled hives. 

Others had no issues. No one tells me why- it's my issue. Only shared that to say beware. 

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To be sure, I appreciate that, there are so many curved balls but somewhere in the curving ball that is coming at you real fast, there is a common denominator.

Such as an intital mite count in january that leads into a treatment regime along the lines of ...... less than ten mites /sample apply four staples and replace in march, or  counts of above 40/sample, apply 8 staples and replace in three weeks.

 

Just thinking to myself here.

 

 

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Besides, buyer beware. No study was available but you still tried them, wholesale. 

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1 minute ago, Gino de Graaf said:

Besides, buyer beware. No study was available but you still tried them, wholesale. 

Uh Huh ... because we had great success in he spring upto the honey flow.

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8 minutes ago, jamesc said:

To be sure, I appreciate that, there are so many curved balls but somewhere in the curving ball that is coming at you real fast, there is a common denominator.

Such as an intital mite count in january that leads into a treatment regime along the lines of ...... less than ten mites /sample apply four staples and replace in march, or  counts of above 40/sample, apply 8 staples and replace in three weeks.

 

Just thinking to myself here.

 

 

However , yes , I agree . It’s a heck of a frustrating situation for you and you are hungry for answers . I would be as well 

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Just now, jamesc said:

Uh Huh ... because we had great success in he spring upto the honey flow.

Sure, but still experimental. Those poor matings were definitely ox related. But I limited that private study to 100 odd hives. I was taken a back by the bee loss when I placed Gibs in a site last spring,  October strong units. Pulled them out when I checked a few days later. Probably would have been OK if left 3 weeks. Also shared that on here. Then I have a group of hives with Gib since summer and sweet. It wasn't a sure thing for me. But well worth trying. We both mixed our own brews.... Did @frazzledfozzlemix her own? 

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2 minutes ago, Gino de Graaf said:

. Did @frazzledfozzlemix her own? 

No, which adds to the mystery .....

Ok .  Guys 

 

Lets start at the beginning . I know not all glycerine is equal , and I doubt OA is either . I suspect there is room in OA for contaminants ?

Which brands did you use ?

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6 minutes ago, M4tt said:

No, which adds to the mystery .....

Ok .  Guys 

 

Lets start at the beginning . I know not all glycerine is equal , and I doubt OA is either . I suspect there is room in OA for contaminants ?

Which brands did you use ?

Clarke's BP glycerine.

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Here’s mine. I even got up and took a photo for ya’s. But of course it’s too big to load.

 

clark products by the 20L apparently they decant it themselves (possibly even make it?)

 

My OA was from them too I think in a 25Kg sack

 

Edited by Pinnacle
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And here’s another success. 

It always amazes me how well bees can do with the right amoun5 of feed a healthy young queen and a good sized population of young bees heading in to winter. The strips you see are from March.

I haven’t been in these hives for nearly 5 months. Walked away with a beaming smile from this apiary😄

3103ED41-E168-4EF8-B975-09B016187A2E.thumb.jpeg.6c1f8849c6d0e08d153757f960b6ca8a.jpeg

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I have a question as a first time user, I've put staples in the hives and about to start the 4 week replacement round. I took a sneak peek at some hives today and most of the staples still look almost like new. Do I remove them and replace, or leave them?

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I think there's often a taste test somewhere !

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51 minutes ago, Alastair said:

I have a question as a first time user, I've put staples in the hives and about to start the 4 week replacement round. I took a sneak peek at some hives today and most of the staples still look almost like new. Do I remove them and replace, or leave them?

My strips sat in the hives mostly untouched all winter.

But in the last 3 weeks they have demolished them and any new ones I put in .

The ones I stored in plastic over winter have crystalised slightly but they still taste very tangy .

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8 hours ago, Alastair said:

I have a question as a first time user, I've put staples in the hives and about to start the 4 week replacement round. I took a sneak peek at some hives today and most of the staples still look almost like new. Do I remove them and replace, or leave them?

I leave them in till I remove them around December for the flow . 

I’m not sure where this replacing them so frequently came from 

7 hours ago, kaihoka said:

My strips sat in the hives mostly untouched all winter.

But in the last 3 weeks they have demolished them and any new ones I put in .

The ones I stored in plastic over winter have crystalised slightly but they still taste very tangy .

I was removing the crystals off , but got tired of that so they go in crystals and all . Can’t say I’ve seen it makes any difference 

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