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Oxalic and glycerine

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my strips are 450 mm long 30mm wide 2000 micron (2mm) and weigh approx 19gr when soaked for 48hrs 

drained for 24hrs then used as required.

 

 

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1 hour ago, olbe said:

my strips are 450 mm long 30mm wide 2000 micron (2mm) and weigh approx 19gr when soaked for 48hrs 

drained for 24hrs then used as required.

 

 

That must be cardboard 
Dry weight  6.33g?

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11 hours ago, Philbee said:

 

 

I have never noticed any dead bees outside my hives when I have used strips .

All issues I have had with my hives are easily explained by other factors.

You had a theory that the OA was hard on sick bees .

Could it be that my isolation means that some of the bee diseases have not reached here yet .

Varroa arrived here later than lots of other areas .

 

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, kaihoka said:

 

I have never noticed any dead bees outside my hives when I have used strips .

All issues I have had with my hives are easily explained by other factors.

You had a theory that the OA was hard on sick bees .

Could it be that my isolation means that some of the bee diseases have not reached here yet .

Varroa arrived here later than lots of other areas .

 

The Bee mortality is so variable that it is very difficult to pin down.

Its as variable as bees themselves so its likely that the explanation for the moralities relates to this diversity in some way

Be it diversity of health, genetics, history or some other condition.

My bet is on Health and maybe even something specifically related an individual or group of pathogens.

Just a theory.

Remember that I have seen this highly variable phenomena occur in every hive in a site which statistically is highly unusual.

That in itself is a clue

Edited by Philbee
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OK ... Back to dog meat.

 

We got our dog meat cheque today. It was'nt a bad payday for a nights shoot out.

The  comment  was made though that a little bit more care and less trigger happy operators would have resulted in a  bigger cheque.

 It's all a learning curve for these young fellahs .

One shot one kill is the mantra.

 

 

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Posted (edited)

I gotta say as far as the staples go I’m very happy.. round 2 of my own bees complete. 

Drone production in full swing, no mites seen, 

fresh  staples been in for 4 weeks, bees are clean as a whistle and building well. A trickle of nectar coming in at last.. willow still 3 weeks away. Have split anything building queen cups (14%) 

Only about 5% are chewing out the EPs. 

Around 12% lost population this time round.. with 7% creating supercedure cells upon fresh staple placement. 

Most have been torn down.

happy as Larry. 

Edited by Stoney
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18 hours ago, Stoney said:

I gotta say as far as the staples go I’m very happy.. round 2 of my own bees complete. 

Drone production in full swing, no mites seen, 

fresh  staples been in for 4 weeks, bees are clean as a whistle and building well. A trickle of nectar coming in at last.. willow still 3 weeks away. Have split anything building queen cups (14%) 

Only about 5% are chewing out the EPs. 

Around 12% lost population this time round.. with 7% creating supercedure cells upon fresh staple placement. 

Most have been torn down.

happy as Larry. 

I was talking to a 150 hive Stapler yesterday
He had expanding hives with 5 mites in many Drone cells.

He put 5 wides in most of them and the Hives with the most mites dropped the most Bees out front.
He was very happy because he was well aware that he had a massive problem to start with 

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9 minutes ago, Philbee said:

I was talking to a 150 hive Stapler yesterday
He had expanding hives with 5 mites in many Drone cells.

He put 5 wides in most of them and the Hives with the most mites dropped the most Bees out front.
He was very happy because he was well aware that he had a massive problem to start with 

Although I have had a small percentage lose population (some a large  loss) the brood just keeps coming with frame fulls of eggs and they bounce back quickly.. 

for my bees I think in future I will go easier on that fresh ox hit by leaving one or two staples out ... just to see how that goes and observe.. I’ve always thought it more important to smack the mites than go easy on the bees. 

My staples went in before drone production really ramped up with only around 5% with drone brood at placement. 

Splitting the 2 brood boxes this round tears masses of it apart and hand on heart I’ve not seen a single mite in any of them. 

 

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Hard to say if the supercedures now are due to the OA. I have roughly the same percentage as you @Stoney.

Ot could be any number of external or internal factors . It could be normal for this year . Who knows 

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I crammed my hives full with at least 6 narrow staples 40/60% Oa/gl interspersed throughout each box in early February knowing I wouldn’t get back into them for months.  I expected losses over winter I have always had some but where are the dead outs when you need them, I need to down size!  

3 x 3/4 box hives over wintered with the top box full of honey, now empty bottom box but with eggs larva capped brood and healthy bees over flowing in top two boxes. I’m going to have to watch the swarming this spring. Thanks @Philbee staples have worked well for my bees not finding many mites at all

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Having spent time yesterday making up OA/Gly on the camp stove in the driveway, 3 sets of gloves to make sure I didn’t ruin my suit or clothes, ⅓ tub of baking soda in clean up... I look forward to commercially available product, in a biodegradable packet, to conveniently use. 

 

A hobbyist doesn’t have economy of scale to make it cheap & convenient... I’ll happily pay for convenient. 

 

But my hives have never over wintered this well before, so regardless I will keep using it. And maybe if clusters of hobbyists were to cooperate and make it more convenient 

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Posted (edited)
21 minutes ago, Josh said:

I look forward to commercially available product, in a biodegradable packet, to conveniently use. 

What sort of quantity were you making up ?  I use a pyrex bowl in the microwave in the kitchen. Oxalic is very benign stuff if you're simply dissolving it into Gl . The bowl & spoons etc just go straight into the wash up pile.  Maybe there are too many terrified of everything americans posting stuff out there.

Edited by yesbut
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1 hour ago, yesbut said:

What sort of quantity were you making up ?

 

40 staples, they are all soaked, squeezed and stored in a bucket now so the next round will be super easy. 

 

I’m sure there is lots of paranoia... but I’m not willing to do it in the kitchen. The only thing worse than this acid (used to clean decks etc) on me or my surroundings would be the wrath of my wife if she found out

Edited by Josh
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4 hours ago, Josh said:

 

40 staples, they are all soaked, squeezed and stored in a bucket now so the next round will be super easy. 

 

I’m sure there is lots of paranoia... but I’m not willing to do it in the kitchen. The only thing worse than this acid (used to clean decks etc) on me or my surroundings would be the wrath of my wife if she found out

The OA/GL mix will ruin the surface on a stainless steel pot

I wouldn't describe OA as benign, GL is benign, OA is dangerous

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2 hours ago, Philbee said:

The OA/GL mix will ruin the surface on a stainless steel pot

I wouldn't describe OA as benign, GL is benign, OA is dangerous

 

It’s pretty harsh on the hands. I put a 2 extra in a hive today and shuffled the rest about as the queens are dodging them. Now I have sore, dry hands, particularly under my nails. It seems to dissolve skin near any cuts too.

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20 minutes ago, cBank said:

 

It’s pretty harsh on the hands. I put a 2 extra in a hive today and shuffled the rest about as the queens are dodging them. Now I have sore, dry hands, particularly under my nails. It seems to dissolve skin near any cuts too.

Gloves were invented for exactly this reason . I’d never touch them with bare hands 

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Acid is corrosive..

does this really come as a surprise to people.? 

If you stuff even used staples into your beesuit pockets it will bleach any clothing worn underneath. 

My canvas seat covers are stained from the orange buckets sitting there. 

All chemicals used for varroa treatments have hazards associated with handling. 

 

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50 minutes ago, Stoney said:

Acid is corrosive..

does this really come as a surprise to people.? 

If you stuff even used staples into your beesuit pockets it will bleach any clothing worn underneath. 

My canvas seat covers are stained from the orange buckets sitting there. 

All chemicals used for varroa treatments have hazards associated with handling. 

 

While we are on the subject of the corrosiveness of oxalic acid does anyone have any suggestions as to what grade of stainless steel I should use for my new solution making staple bath that I am about to build. Was thinking 316 but am open to any suggestions.

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2 hours ago, cBank said:

 

It’s pretty harsh on the hands. I put a 2 extra in a hive today and shuffled the rest about as the queens are dodging them. Now I have sore, dry hands, particularly under my nails. It seems to dissolve skin near any cuts too.

Gloves are a must.

It seems to infect cuts or at least make cuts prone to mild infections

1 hour ago, Jamo said:

While we are on the subject of the corrosiveness of oxalic acid does anyone have any suggestions as to what grade of stainless steel I should use for my new solution making staple bath that I am about to build. Was thinking 316 but am open to any suggestions.

I used 304 and asked the question of the suppliers of the stainless.
 

Edited by Philbee
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2 hours ago, cBank said:

 

It’s pretty harsh on the hands. I put a 2 extra in a hive today and shuffled the rest about as the queens are dodging them. Now I have sore, dry hands, particularly under my nails. It seems to dissolve skin near any cuts too.

I use disposable gloves.

The extra strong blue ones .

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I would love a small mangle to tidily squeeze out the staples

Edited by Josh

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8 hours ago, Josh said:

I would love a small mangle to tidily squeeze out the staples

What about the wringer part on an old washing machine .

I used to use one but they are probably only in local museums now .

The wringer section was very usefull for all sorts of things .

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14 hours ago, Josh said:

I would love a small mangle to tidily squeeze out the staples

I put on a measured amount so there is no surplus. I weigh the staples and divide by 14g to estimate the number of staples. then I multiply that figure by 20g the amount of solution for each staple. This gives me a weight of goup. I measure into a pot 40% of that as OA and 60% of that in G. I never squeeze any out. I do have to rotate the bucket multiple times over a number of days to get it to all disappear. I avoid using any staples that are wet whether squeezed or not. After a good long while they are somewhat dry to the touch. Well, not dry, but certainly not wet. They completely ruin regular gloves, but as soon as they do, a visit blackwoods allows you to do what I have done in the photo and now my gloves last forever. Discussed previously in BoP Group posts on the forum. These are a mesh glove with a rubber surface originally purchased for concreting. By sliding them inside regular leather gloves they are fine. I have had the odd sting through the mesh part, but overall I find them very comfortable. Compared to the disposable ones, I find this much less sweaty and I don't have to throw away disposable gloves into landfill every time I go beekeeping. I dissolve the solution on low on kitchen stove in a cheap ss pot off trademe. Once it goes clear, I take this outside and pour it on to my staples in a 10 litre bucket. I then rinse and clean the ss pot. I only do between 60 and 120 staples at a time, I'm only at quite small scale. Takes me ages to get through an orange bucket.. As you can see from the green dot, in one of the photos I have used this setup routinely for a while now.

 

OAG Gloves2.jpg

OAG Gloves.jpg

Edited by ChrisM
typos
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Hmmm, I use my hands no gloves to dish out staples and the only problem I've had is cuts stinging and some 

aggravation under the nails. 

 

However...I'm a bit different....I don't wear any protective gear and just use a smoker.


That's how we do it up North 🙂

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3 hours ago, ChrisM said:

 

 

OAG Gloves2.jpg

OAG Gloves.jpg

 

What a spectacular solution, I might just try that. I do hate the volume of gloves, eve when I’m tight and recycle them. 

 

I tried to make ale exactly right, but get a better soak with some extra solution. It’s cheap to waste, just a bit messy. 

 

Thanks again for glove idea

Edited by Josh
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