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Oxalic and glycerine

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2 hours ago, tommy dave said:

How much energy and bee numbers do you think get used up defending a hive from investigation by scouts from hungry hives

And from flying more due an unseasonal winter = plenty of flying days and micro.flows

Yep. I think lots of energy is used up defending. We’d still have robbing here if we aren’t careful.

a couple of days ago I saw 6-8 wasps having a go at at single box hive I’d just moved into a site. 

With overcrowding bees are probably having to fly further to get a feed too. 

 

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On the matter of placement.
Ive always put mine in a straight line and killed the Mites but Ive also always had a split Brood as a result
That is the Spring Hive has Brood at one end and stores at the other with the row of staples as the boundary.
It never bothered me because at least the Hive was healthy and that really what my goal was.
Recently Ive realised that the square pattern layout in the central part of the Box is probably a step up.

I might try it this season.

 

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I am going to persevere with alternatives even though synthetics still work fine for me .

I think humanities days of easy victories over all competeing life forms are over .

We may be wiping out a lot of the animals we would like to have around but we have lost the initial advantage of the surprise attack with  bacteria , fungi , insects that like to eat our crops, weeds we do not want in our garden  etc .

I have been a mostly organic gardener for 40 yrs and its bloody hard work .

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In my humble opinion a lot of varroa failure is possibly cross infection. i wonder if this is partly why staples are often very effective, on going treatment to control cross infection.

I have been asked to place hives on an island in the gulf that has no hives and is a wildlife sanctuary. I am dying to see how they differ from my home hives over a season.

 

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22 hours ago, jamesc said:

You are right ..... but I think from here on in we will be steady as she goes as we learn, My impression  from this past  year is the staples worked well in the spring , but  we should have run cloths right through the honey flow to maintain low mite levels as the staples did'nt seem to cope with the high mite numbers after the flow when the hives were humming with bees, and that is when the game plan turned to custard..

We sampled some hives in early February that had 200plus mites ..... whacked them with O/A and they died. Should have gone synthetic.

 

 

 

The hive died because of the mite levels not because of the treatment.  A hive at 200 mites is a hive beyond return either with OA or Synthetics. 

With you on the putting the cloths in through the honey flow, Autumn will be a happy time.

 

22 hours ago, frazzledfozzle said:

 

Not for us, we haven’t had any sign of resistance it was more about wanting t9 get away fr8m the chemicals in the hive because as think as a queen rearer the synthetics have a detrimental effect on queens.

Im too scared to try ox/gl again for a while  so even though the cost is huge we can’t afford to have hives come through winter so mixed in strength.

having said that we actually don’t know if it’s the staples Or something else entirely.

 

On the dwindled hives, did you do any mite testing?

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50 minutes ago, CraBee said:

 

On the dwindled hives, did you do any mite testing?

 

No real mite issues apart from two hives.

so the staples are definitely keeping the mites at bay. 

 

im thinking that the narrows could be a better way for us to go they might not divide the brood nest the way the wides have with brood at one end of the frame and honey at the other.

 

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11 hours ago, frazzledfozzle said:

 

No real mite issues apart from two hives.

so the staples are definitely keeping the mites at bay. 

 

im thinking that the narrows could be a better way for us to go they might not divide the brood nest the way the wides have with brood at one end of the frame and honey at the other.

 

we are having pretty much the same problems frazzledfozzle still alot of bite in the strips, have found no queens in the small patch of bees left, the surviving hives seem to be a lot of the Autumn splits or smaller hives going into winter, i do not think the very warm autumn helped the strong  hives much, they just got stronger, no hives have been short of food they have left with heaps still ready to eat, got me beat.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, kevin moore said:

we are having pretty much the same problems frazzledfozzle still alot of bite in the strips, have found no queens in the small patch of bees left, the surviving hives seem to be a lot of the Autumn splits or smaller hives going into winter, i do not think the very warm autumn helped the strong  hives much, they just got stronger, no hives have been short of food they have left with heaps still ready to eat, got me beat.

@kevin moore are you saying the bees have disappeared but left stores only a handful of bees left?

What percentage of your operation is like this?

 

Edited by fieldbee

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14 hours ago, Gavin Smith said:

In my humble opinion a lot of varroa failure is possibly cross infection. i wonder if this is partly why staples are often very effective, on going treatment to control cross infection.

I have been asked to place hives on an island in the gulf that has no hives and is a wildlife sanctuary. I am dying to see how they differ from my home hives over a season.

 

 

If you played this very carefully, would you be able to have a varroa free setup?

A new split with no brood and strips/vapour or something to get them all?

Has anyone tried this? If there is a guaranteed zero chance of reinvasion it seems a great opportunity.

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11 minutes ago, cBank said:

Has anyone tried this? If there is a guaranteed zero chance of reinvasion it seems a great opportunity.

Yes. After Varroa and until a few years ago, a govt. research varroa free apiary existed on Great Mercury Island. I understand the operation was sold /taken over  by private enterprise, moved, and now gone.

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2 hours ago, fieldbee said:

@kevin moore are you saying the bees have disappeared but left stores only a handful of bees left?

What percentage of your operation is like this?

 

I found one hive like this the other day, QL (Queen less,) they just slowly dwindle

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4 hours ago, cBank said:

 

If you played this very carefully, would you be able to have a varroa free setup?

A new split with no brood and strips/vapour or something to get them all?

Has anyone tried this? If there is a guaranteed zero chance of reinvasion it seems a great opportunity.

The island has a few feral bees, it is within a kilometer of an island that has bees so no chance of no varroa. That said i will be doing everything 

to not put varroa there myself. It will be two new splits with no brood. Quite exciting. At home on Waiheke there are just so many hives that we cross contaminate each other all the time.

At least here the ferals will be few and probably die out naturaly. Will keep you all posted.

 

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5 hours ago, fieldbee said:

@kevin moore are you saying the bees have disappeared but left stores only a handful of bees left?

What percentage of your operation is like this?

 

most hives, no bees and honey a bout half.  a half cup of bees, dead and honey, possible a bout 40% of hives checked at this stage, more to check next week

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6 minutes ago, kevin moore said:

most hives, no bees and honey a bout half.  a half cup of bees, dead and honey, possible a bout 40% of hives checked at this stage, more to check next week

How many losses so far? Could it bee poisoning? If I was losing that much I would get them tested. 

1 minute ago, Maru Hoani said:

How many losses so far? Could it bee poisoning? If I was losing that much I would get them tested. 

Also what are the remaining hives looking like? 

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13 minutes ago, kevin moore said:

most hives, no bees and honey a bout half.  a half cup of bees, dead and honey, possible a bout 40% of hives checked at this stage, more to check next week

 

Possibly nosema?

http://scientificbeekeeping.com/the-enigma-of-nosema/

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2 hours ago, Maru Hoani said:

How many losses so far? Could it bee poisoning? If I was losing that much I would get them tested. 

Also what are the remaining hives looking like? 

remaining hives are looking ok, possibly a bit lower in numbers than i would expect to see, don't think poisoning as not a lot of dead bees in front of hive. the few that are left in the hive some have there heads in the cells as though short of food, but are not they have food on the frames they are on,

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What were the symptoms of Cororapa? Sounds similar but I am unsure. The two Nosema's?

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I have a dwindler at home.
It arrived mid last season as a swarm and was never really a great Hive 

It went into winter as a box of bees and a box of Honey

Its now a tightly clusterd grapefruit size.
Mite count of 2 back in April.
My other Home hive is good.
There are probably 15 sites within 2 kms of my house

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We've placed our OAG tapes with one leg down each seam of brood, even if there is only a small amount of brood in that seam; as was suggested at that time. We haven't placed OAG over bars where neither seam had developing brood. We are at sea level, relatively warm at night due to the sea. For no concious reason, I mostly alternated the placement in zig zag fashion 25% of the way along top bars, but always in contact to brood; so NOT a straight dividing line down the middle and never more nor less than one leg per seam containing brood. So far, soooooo good. Also, we were still getting through some of the old single line of stitch tapes in Autumn, we still rate the single stitching as good or better in our location. We have not seen anything special change with the overlocked edges or 4x stitching, but no complaints either. I have to confess I still have not used any of the narrows yet. I mix up the OA and G in batches to suit about 150 strips at a time, so at my scale I use 10 litre buckets and just keep the dry ones in the 20L pail.

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6 hours ago, ChrisM said:

Also, we were still getting through some of the old single line of stitch tapes in Autumn, we still rate the single stitching as good or better in our location.

Report back in a month or 2.
Once those hives start to crank they'll tear them to bits

Ive seen the bees remove those ones in 10 days

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23 hours ago, Philbee said:

Report back in a month or 2.
Once those hives start to crank they'll tear them to bits

Ive seen the bees remove those ones in 10 days

I get your points, but you need to re-read what I said.

Repeating myself... those strips went in to the hives in February, for our Autumn treatments, they were the sole treatment for ~50% of our hives and when we ran out of them, the remaining hives got the newer 4x and EP strips. At this point we are going into Spring and those hives are fantastic regardless of stitching. We will be inserting Spring treatments around Mid September. This might seem late to some, but as a lot of pollination hives come into the region Oct/Nov it is good to have our treatments in phase with the visiting mites. Those Spring strips will all be 4x stitching coz that's all we've got these days.

 

So, just to be clear I have reported back some months after the last single stitch strips went in. We don't have any single stitch tapes to use this Spring because we have run out. Last year, when single stitch strips was all that we had, they worked fine for us in previous Spring. Yes, some did get chewed out, but in Spring we are checking the hives for stores and/or expansion space much more regularly, so it is easy to replace any that are gone in the Sept-Nov period.

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Last weekend I managed to prepare the OA/GL mix with a bit of drama.

My electric wok(I got it 12 years ago second hand for $5 to melt beeswax) just died so I had to hunt for something and within a couple of hours I got a brand new slow cooker(6.5L) from FB for $30. I am very happy with the deal however I have to admit the slow cooker method is ...... slow. It took me 2+ hours to have the OA melted. It was a bit cold in the backyard. There was no chance for the mix to get any near to boiling  point so I am glad that all worked well. staples are soaking till next weekend.

 

My hives are all good(staples lined up ass we learned the method from @Philbee). Now because you guys are saying my hives split the box too(brood upfront, stores in the back).

Non of the hives are cranking but they are in a better shape than previous years with Bayvarol as autumn treatment. Very few hives a hungry-ish but they got some syrup 4 weeks ago and now they have some food in the nature(....if the rain stops).

 

Interesting, that always I put the synthetic strips as per @Stoney's pic(square setup) and I was  quite happy with that setup. I will try it next weekend with the staples too.

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1 hour ago, Kiwi Bee said:

It took me 2+ hours to have the OA melted.

Lol

I reckon one of those old (or new) single ring electric hot plates sitting on a firm table would be ideal and an 8L stainless steel preserving pots with two good handles.

 

 

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So was out working the hives today, before rain.  Liked what I saw  Alcohol washed the first hive I went into strong happy hive.  1 varroa.  All the autumn strips intact completely.  Replaced the whole 4

The rest of the site -  a few hives had the middle two eaten out others had them partially eaten and nearly all of the outside strips were intact.  All had a good bite to them.  So ended up replacing the middle two or 3 strips depending on brood numbers and left the very outside strips,  either both outside ones or 1 depending on how many I was replacing.

Who has taste tested new strips how strong are they compared to ones we take out?  I dont know if I am game to taste new ones,dislike the taste of old ones.

 

@Philbee  just a thought If you changed the colour of the stitching on the strips every few months then people could track the age of their strips by the colour of the stitching  bought in certain months.  just an idea. 

 

 

On 10/08/2019 at 10:38 PM, Ali said:

What were the symptoms of Cororapa? Sounds similar but I am unsure. The two Nosema's?

Bees drowning in large numbers in top feeders,  Bees in clumps on fence posts or railings looking lost.  Bees all disappeared leaving plenty of stores in hive which dont get robbed out,  unlike AFB.  Only half a cup or less of bees left with a queen.  Collect some (20) of those last bees  put in ziplock bag and send to John McKay and DNature in Gisborne for testing.

 

Those hives that have died out in this way  are treated in our operation as follows.

Seperated as diseased.  Old frames get all wax blasted off.  If frames are good for brood those boxes go into heat tent and get heated 40-50 degrees surposedly for 2 hours but often longer.  Bases lids div boards queen excluders scrapped down and either go in heat tent, or dipped in janola,  or if nothing done with them in winter and we are back to hot days are laid out in sun on very hot days singly exposed to heat and sunlight.

 By doing this we have reduced our disease loadings and now only get the occasional sick hive.  We know we had corrorapa because we tested.  

 

We know cororapa is held in the wax because we sent our wax out of sick hives (ie cut out brood wax around the surviving bees) and sent it to John for testing.

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23 minutes ago, fieldbee said:

Who has taste tested new strips how strong are they compared to ones we take out?  I dont know if I am game to taste new ones,dislike the taste of old ones.

Id say that a fresh staple has a 9volt battery type sting to the tip of the tongue.
A used one is like a flat 9 volt battery.

Also, I found a bunch of 1 cups of Bees in a pile dead about 1m out in front of a home hive about 6 weeks ago.

Thought it was odd

 
 

2 hours ago, Kiwi Bee said:

My hives are all good(staples lined up ass we learned the method from @Philbee)

I came from a position of just being grateful for having healthy Hive so was prepared to overlook what seemed relatively minor effects on Brood etc.

Its been great to see the team take this system and tweak it to advantage.

 

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