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Oxalic and glycerine

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I have read all the posts in this thread and I am unsure about why people are trying to find an alternative to vaporizing OA.

Is it a cost Issue or a convenience and effectiveness problem

Vaporising OA is effective for just a short time and is really only economical/ practical in periods of low brood volume.

This new method of administering OA in a Glycerine carrier potentially puts OA treatments on a level footing with longer lasting synthetics application methods.

There can also be a significant cost saving in using Organic acids.

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Hmmmm went to local farmlands and wrightsons this morning. Neither had liquid glycerine. Chemist will do small quantities and high cost. Any ideas where I might find it in larger quantities?

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Hmmmm went to local farmlands and wrightsons this morning. Neither had liquid glycerine. Chemist will do small quantities and high cost. Any ideas where I might find it in larger quantities?

 

Clark's in Napier has it I was quoted "20 Ltrs Glycerine for $ 109.48 ( GST INC)" although I saw a cheaper price quoted from the same supplier.

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Clark's in Napier has it I was quoted "20 Ltrs Glycerine for $ 109.48 ( GST INC)" although I saw a cheaper price quoted from the same supplier.

Thanks. I found 1.1kg at bin inn for $13. Not very cheap but sufficient for a trial.

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Hmmmm went to local farmlands and wrightsons this morning. Neither had liquid glycerine. Chemist will do small quantities and high cost. Any ideas where I might find it in larger quantities?

They dont stock "teat spray"? Oh thats right its all sheep down there;)

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Vapourising only lasts as long as the vapour in the hive , or maybe a little longer.

Oxalic is a very effective varroa treatment , so clever people are working on getting the delivery time, and therefore treatment time , in the hive to last longer than one brood cycle for varroa

When I use the vaporizer I do it once a week for at least 4 or 5 weeks.

But I only have 3 or 4 hives .

I consider when I am doing it the logistics of doing 100 hives

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I have read all the posts in this thread and I am unsure about why people are trying to find an alternative to vaporizing OA.

Is it a cost Issue or a convenience and effectiveness problem

Vapor needs min 3 treatments to cover a brood cycle, this seems to cover that period with one treatment, cost aside I reckon it's far simpler than my vaporiser if it continues to work like it's seem to be.

 

Hmmmm went to local farmlands and wrightsons this morning. Neither had liquid glycerine. Chemist will do small quantities and high cost. Any ideas where I might find it in larger quantities?

farmlands were happy to order in for me, arrived two days later

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Has anyone had the chance and the inclination to do a sugar shake after a 30 day treatment?

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Has anyone had the chance and the inclination to do a sugar shake after a 30 day treatment?

I'm about to do before treatment samples then will probably do them two weekly after that.

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Clark's in Napier has it I was quoted "20 Ltrs Glycerine for $ 109.48 ( GST INC)" although I saw a cheaper price quoted from the same supplier.

Thats cheaper than farmlands at $140

Clarks are hard to beat, unfortunately I didn't consider getting them to price Glycerine.

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Thanks. I found 1.1kg at bin inn for $13. Not very cheap but sufficient for a trial.

1.1 kg of glycerine will mix with 1.1kg of OA and that will impregnate a lot of towel/paper.

Im realistically dosing 25g per hive so 1100g/25g= 44 hives

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I also have treated 50 hives today. I used the 'Scott original shop towels' that the original scientific beekeepers study uses. Two half roll towels per hive. I haven't as yet treated any nucs - what do people think of treating un mated queens? Brood break enough to stall the cycle?. Will be treating 50 more tomorrow. Havent put in sticky boards or done a sugar shake - just seems to be no time ......

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I also have treated 50 hives today. I used the 'Scott original shop towels' that the original scientific beekeepers study uses. Two half roll towels per hive. I haven't as yet treated any nucs - what do people think of treating un mated queens? Brood break enough to stall the cycle?. Will be treating 50 more tomorrow. Havent put in sticky boards or done a sugar shake - just seems to be no time ......

Generally its best not to treat a hive that has a Virgin.

I know this is especially applicable to Formic acid treatments.

However today I treated a couple of mating nucs with OA/GLY that have Virgin Queens.

Ill see how they go.

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As a variation on a theme I've used Ram Board (cardboard) for my OA/GLY trial. . Sliced a bit off the end of the roll, loosened it and soaked in a bucket. After draining I put the roll in an old MAQS container. Very easy to tear off the required length for each hive. It'll be interesting to see how long it lasts before the bees have removed it all.

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Has anyone had the chance and the inclination to do a sugar shake after a 30 day treatment?

I had a sugar shaking day on Friday. We put Bayvarol in a month or so ago , and I'm going to be honest here and report we only put two strips in the single brood box hives, as we have since day one of varroa , more as a cost saving thing ... and yes I do know about sinking the ship for a Half penny of tar ..... The sugar shakes revealed no mites..... Zero.

I'm wondering about an oxalic drip as we pull the strips out .... a mix in a drench gun back pack to give a squirt and final knockdown insurance .

Any thoughts ?

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We also sent samples up to Sarah to investigate for resistance, so that will be interesting.

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We also sent samples up to Sarah to investigate for resistance, so that will be interesting.

I gassed my three hives with OA for 4 weeks in jan/feb.

I got 1or 2 varroa in the trays each time.

I am about to put in bayvarol, it will be interesting to see what the count is this year .

Last year when I gassed my hives I was getting varroa nos in 10x each OA gas.

And a big drop again with the bayvarol .

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Has anyone had the chance and the inclination to do a sugar shake after a 30 day treatment?

All the time, did some the other day (Alcohol wash) day 20 already lower than start, but still early days, I did a DWV hive last week which has treatment in for 4 weeks, I haven't got figures on me and i have a lot of numbers when i get time will post some up, but that hive has not reduced much in fact i think its gone up but on the other side bees have reduced to just surviving i had to add a couple frames of healthy brood, even if i had strips in this hive would have gone backwards. I would still be careful if mite levels are high before hand.

 

I mostly do site average counts but out of curiosity we do retest the odd same hive to see whats going on, but for me i just need to see the site average going down.

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I had a sugar shaking day on Friday. We put Bayvarol in a month or so ago , and I'm going to be honest here and report we only put two strips in the single brood box hives, as we have since day one of varroa , more as a cost saving thing ... and yes I do know about sinking the ship for a Half penny of tar ..... The sugar shakes revealed no mites..... Zero.

I'm wondering about an oxalic drip as we pull the strips out .... a mix in a drench gun back pack to give a squirt and final knockdown insurance .

Any thoughts ?

If your thinking about the dribble as final knockdown over all your hives with out knowing how well the bayvarol worked then yes it is cheap insurance it works and your already in the hive anyway so why not.

In my typical thinking i would say, What are you knocking down if your not getting mites?

As Far as the treatment amount i'm with you on that And yes i maybe the one to blame for resistance but i have never used it at recommended dose, personally i reckon its way to strong if you want that chemical in every part of your hive and hive products wax, honey, propolis then stick to the packet then see if your propolis wont get rejected. But hey that's only my opinion the packet says different each to there own opinion.

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T

 

I had a sugar shaking day on Friday. We put Bayvarol in a month or so ago , and I'm going to be honest here and report we only put two strips in the single brood box hives, as we have since day one of varroa , more as a cost saving thing ... and yes I do know about sinking the ship for a Half penny of tar ..... The sugar shakes revealed no mites..... Zero.

I'm wondering about an oxalic drip as we pull the strips out .... a mix in a drench gun back pack to give a squirt and final knockdown insurance .

Any thoughts ?

That's best left till the middle of winter when the queen goes of the boil I have found it hard on the bees I found using the vaporiser is better. Finally getting round to putting in the towels seeing big numbers of dead mites after 24 hrs will be good to see how long the towels last I put some small tears in the middle so the bees move up through.

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If your thinking about the dribble as final knockdown over all your hives with out knowing how well the bayvarol worked then yes it is cheap insurance it works and your already in the hive anyway so why not.

In my typical thinking i would say, What are you knocking down if your not getting mites?

As Far as the treatment amount i'm with you on that And yes i maybe the one to blame for resistance but i have never used it at recommended dose, personally i reckon its way to strong if you want that chemical in every part of your hive and hive products wax, honey, propolis then stick to the packet then see if your propolis wont get rejected. But hey that's only my opinion the packet says different each to there own opinion.

I've often thought about the acid as the final knockdown. Generally as we pull the strips out the bees are broodless, and of course I didn't sugar shake very hive ... so, call it insurance because we still pick up dead bees in the spring that have had the treatments yet still dwindle and die.

And of course, if we are to flood the market with $2000 hives in the spring we need as many as we can to create that tidal wave.

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I've often thought about the acid as the final knockdown. Generally as we pull the strips out the bees are broodless, and of course I didn't sugar shake very hive ... so, call it insurance because we still pick up dead bees in the spring that have had the treatments yet still dwindle and die.

And of course, if we are to flood the market with $2000 hives in the spring we need as many as we can to create that tidal wave.

At the rate we are working out ways to combat the mites, I would wager that the number of hives in NZ will double over the next 5-10 years.

most of this expansion will be in new start ups and urban hives.

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have to agree there will still be some substantial increase but I really feel the urban hive increase will not be a very significant number unless the bigger operators try for a take over of that turf too.

New start ups with any big plans would have to be very brave given the competition for sites. The Southern Isle of course will probably begin to get hammered by the corporates as the northern parts get crowded

I suspect some 'controls' will be along before the 10 year mark anyway. Past behaviour being the best predictor of future behaviour we will undoubtedly stuff the industry along the way like most other boom/bust kiwi things. Deer, Kiwi fruit, goats, etc to mention a few. I suspect we are half way there already.

Interestingly, I have noticed several dump sites close an apiary of mine that have far less hives returned then last season and can't help wondering what the reasoning is. Losses through a rough season? One has at least 50% nucs rather than full hives and still not as many as last season.

I think the bigger operators have already expanded enormously on the Manuka wave and the corporates certainly did and will try more vastly more of course to most everyone else's detriment.

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For a basic understanding of what drives boom and bust cycles in a capitalist society see The Tulip Bubble

 

Market Crashes: The Tulip and Bulb Craze | Investopedia

 

The difference between the tulip bubble and the manuka boom is tulips are an investment only, other than that essentially worthless. Whereas beehives actually produce something worth money, so have an intrinsic bottom line value. However that intrinsic value is set by the value of what the hives produce, and the value of what the hives produce is set by supply and demand, something we are increasingly losing influence over.

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For a basic understanding of what drives boom and bust cycles in a capitalist society see The Tulip Bubble

 

Market Crashes: The Tulip and Bulb Craze | Investopedia

 

The difference between the tulip bubble and the manuka boom is tulips are an investment only, other than that essentially worthless. Whereas beehives actually produce something worth money, so have an intrinsic bottom line value. However that intrinsic value is set by the value of what the hives produce, and the value of what the hives produce is set by supply and demand, something we are increasingly losing influence over.

Quite right Alistair .... the value of the hive is set by what it can produce. Now Mr philbees hives are worth a fortune on account of the returns he gets off them. Mine are worth even more because I took a split off everything over Christmas which is for sale at $2000 in the spring, plus I get next years honey crop ,possibly mainly clover at 30kg per hive at conservative price of $12.50kg. Or maybe we'llload up a thousand hives and take them up to Northland for October and return $164/kg ..... giving us a hive "value" of in excess of $4000.

So, two grand for a bee hive is cheap. Whose buying ?

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