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Oxalic and glycerine

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well yeah stoney .... I'm scratching my head as I posted photos of hives with staples in back in the late summer when they were boxes of bees with shimmering wings and champing at the proboscous to gather the sweet dew, and got comments that the staples were too far apart, so when we refreshed them in the autumn we moved them in closer to the brood for the winter.

And yes ...... we are a cold , damp and windy  old hole.

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2 minutes ago, frazzledfozzle said:

We put staples in after pulling honey they went in a line right through the middle.

The hives were strong single brood box’s with a box of honey left on top. 

Some sites I would say are cold over winter most of them aren’t.

we also need to up our game. 

@Stoney your placement is different to ours we had them right through the middle. 

My Staples are through the middle too, but after seeing @Stoney's results , I'm going to have a play and the next two sites are getting placed like his 

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1 minute ago, frazzledfozzle said:

 

@Stoney your placement is different to ours we had them right through the middle. 

We ran them through the middle this time last season at work and found a lot of colonies split .. with brood on one side and stores the other so adapted the next round to one leg each seam alternate ends.  They can’t avoid that. 

I run staples continuous up to the target flow... which is December , only in the brood. 

At harvest they run solid again through til wintering down in April May where the last treatment goes in 

To be replaced now with new edge protection for massive chewing. 

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1 minute ago, Stoney said:

I run one staple “leg” in each seam of bees.. on the edge of the brood area so just touching the outside extremity of the brood. These thumping beasts were last treated with staples in April. 

 

 

Nice hive.  I think you're onto something about 'exposure' to the acid and treating according to strength.  I think there is an initial whack of acid which can kill bees, then the acid level drops as the staples 'dry' out- giving no long term adverse affect.  The staples do produce a large contact area.  

Others have had success, but had a dud experience trying to introduce queen cells in Feb (strong hives) at the same time as placing 4 x staples.  Lots of queenless and some deads by April.  I have to disclose that these sites did experience a heavy Willow Dew flow and not much pollen- so they shut down early and got bogged with Willow Poo.

My breeders at home have had staples since Summer and today, 3 washes - 1, 2 and 4 mites.  

Ox/Gly staples work.  Just need to understand how to manage.

 

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Posted (edited)

@Stoney Did you have a die off of bees the very first time you  used the staples ?

When I first used staples in spring I had around 10 hives out of 60 that had a really big die off of bees.

most comments from the forum were that maybe the bees are sick with virus etc in some hives and the ox/gl kills them off.

I wonder if that’s what happened in Autumn and they just never had time to recover before winter. 

Or it could just as easily be totally unrelated to the staples 

 

Edited by frazzledfozzle
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4 minutes ago, Stoney said:

We ran them through the middle this time last season at work and found a lot of colonies split .. with brood on one side and stores the other so adapted the next round to one leg each seam alternate ends.  They can’t avoid that. 

I run staples continuous up to the target flow... which is December , only in the brood. 

At harvest they run solid again through til wintering down in April May where the last treatment goes in 

To be replaced now with new edge protection for massive chewing. 

 

How many staples would you place per hive over your season?  I guess you add/replace as you work?  Even a ball park number... 

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4 minutes ago, frazzledfozzle said:

@Stoney did you move your staples around over winter ?

Back in April/May I added staples to the exact same place as now.. one leg in each seam on the edge of the brood. 

This week was the next opening where some hives had fully removed them and or had chewed them except for the top piece over the frame. 

If it’s a full box of bees it gets four staples max , weaker hives get less but I just judge on population and brood amount  

I

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1 minute ago, frazzledfozzle said:

Did you have a die off of bees the very first time you  used the staples ?

When I first used staples in spring I had around 10 hives out of 60 that had a really big die off of bees.

most comments from the forum were that maybe the bees are sick with virus etc in some hives and the ox/gl kills them off.

I wonder if that’s what happened in Autumn and they just never had time to recover before winter. 

Or it could just as easily be totally unrelated to the staples 

 

I got 2 pallets that only get 2-3hours of sun and they had quite a lot of dead bees out front a few weeks back when I put my second round of staples in for spring, I'll check them in the next fine day.

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4 minutes ago, frazzledfozzle said:

@Stoney Did you have a die off of bees the very first time you  used the staples ?

When I first used staples in spring I had around 10 hives out of 60 that had a really big die off of bees.

most comments from the forum were that maybe the bees are sick with virus etc in some hives and the ox/gl kills them off.

I wonder if that’s what happened in Autumn and they just never had time to recover before winter. 

Or it could just as easily be totally unrelated to the staples 

 

I recon the first time I used staples I lost an entire brood cycle of build up. 

5 minutes ago, Gino de Graaf said:

 

How many staples would you place per hive over your season?  I guess you add/replace as you work?  Even a ball park number... 

No idea sorry, in spring our bees chew them like crazy, we run a 3weekly round or thereabouts they get replaced as required. 

You have to let go of the synthetic thinking of “a treatment round” those days are gone with these things. 

 

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1 hour ago, M4tt said:

Everything about the residual bees is healthy , except for the lack of them . 

It’s site specific here . All dwindled hives are on one site , which is also the hives with the most honey on . For my flow , which doesn’t properly kick in till Christmas time , I’m pretty sure they will be big and powerful by then and I’ll be trying to tone them down . 

I have more seemingly dwindled hives (and I think more large population hives also) than previous seasons and wonder right now if the dwindlers are a result of late season swarming? 

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1 minute ago, Stoney said:

I recon the first time I used staples I lost an entire brood cycle of build up. 

They definitely get knocked back. 

Hopefully I get less swarms this season

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1 minute ago, Ali said:

I have more seemingly dwindled hives (and I think more large population hives also) than previous seasons and wonder right now if the dwindlers are a result of late season swarming? 

Interesting ....

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Just now, Maru Hoani said:

They definitely get knocked back. 

Hopefully I get less swarms this season

Mate I bang pollen traps on the stuff early that sorts out the swarming to a degree.. this season I’m going for gold and doubling my numbers.. hopefully that helps sort my swarming. 

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Posted (edited)

I'm tempted to let someone else fine tune the O/A regime and return to synthetic as a main treatement. Why spoil the ship for a ha'penny of tar eh ?

2 minutes ago, Stoney said:

Mate I bang pollen traps on the stuff early that sorts out the swarming to a degree.. this season I’m going for gold and doubling my numbers.. hopefully that helps sort my swarming. 

Nice one ..... I can do you a deal on all the gear you need  ..... second hand unchewed staples included.

Edited by jamesc
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5 minutes ago, jamesc said:

I'm tempted to let someone else fine tune the O/A regime and return to synthetic as a main treatement. Why spoil the ship for a ha'penny of tar eh ?

 

Are we not all mostly on this journey because of the bad results with synthetics ? 

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And the extreme cost.. I’d be up the creek financially without these things.. and they work which is one heck of a bonus thanks Phil

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I've added them as part of my treatments, they are another tool in my pest management strategy which I believe is key to the survival of my business as I'm going to be beekeeping until my end. 

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3 minutes ago, M4tt said:

Are we not all mostly on this journey because of the bad results with synthetics ? 

You are right ..... but I think from here on in we will be steady as she goes as we learn, My impression  from this past  year is the staples worked well in the spring , but  we should have run cloths right through the honey flow to maintain low mite levels as the staples did'nt seem to cope with the high mite numbers after the flow when the hives were humming with bees, and that is when the game plan turned to custard..

We sampled some hives in early February that had 200plus mites ..... whacked them with O/A and they died. Should have gone synthetic.

 

 

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8 minutes ago, M4tt said:

Are we not all mostly on this journey because of the bad results with synthetics ? 

 

Not for us, we haven’t had any sign of resistance it was more about wanting t9 get away fr8m the chemicals in the hive because as think as a queen rearer the synthetics have a detrimental effect on queens.

Im too scared to try ox/gl again for a while  so even though the cost is huge we can’t afford to have hives come through winter so mixed in strength.

having said that we actually don’t know if it’s the staples Or something else entirely.

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I don't see anyone here lately with a leg of a staple between every frame as has been promoted earlier. This business of chasing the cluster with possibly a lesser number of staples seems a bit fraught to me. 

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2 minutes ago, yesbut said:

I don't see anyone here lately with a leg of a staple between every frame as has been promoted earlier. This business of chasing the cluster with possibly a lesser number of staples seems a bit fraught to me. 

 

Our hives had a leg in every seam .

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1 minute ago, Maru Hoani said:

I've added them as part of my treatments, they are another tool in my pest management strategy which I believe is key to the survival of my business as I'm going to be beekeeping until my end. 

Hmm @Maru Hoani I'm looking at that two ways arent sure if I'm beekeeping till the end or if beekeeping will be the end of me. 

Son gave me a lecture the other day that many beeks as they get older downsize. 

 

 

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Posted (edited)
8 minutes ago, yesbut said:

I don't see anyone here lately with a leg of a staple between every frame as has been promoted earlier. This business of chasing the cluster with possibly a lesser number of staples seems a bit fraught to me. 

My Feb treatments started with a leg down each seam of bees , which got moved in with the cluster . Outside Staples were moved in as inside ones got chewed.

My August treatments are just concentrating on brood,  rightly or wrongly, however, as the bees expand across the box, so will the Staples 

Edited by M4tt
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1 minute ago, fieldbee said:

Hmm @Maru Hoani I'm looking at that two ways arent sure if I'm beekeeping till the end or if beekeeping will be the end of me. 

Son gave me a lecture the other day that many beeks as they get older downsize. 

 

 

I mean until I can't anymore. I bought 33 hives when I first started for $150 each off an old guy from hellensville Bruce Miller 80s plus who was happy that his hives were going to a young keen guy who would look after them and they went to a good home. 

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