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Oxalic and glycerine

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Ive seen an extreme case of this that in my mind points to a common factor in the die off.

My experience has been that a significant die off (2 cups) happens in about 2 or 3% of hives and that these Hives are spread throughout an outfit.
However Ive once seen a spring treated site of 15 Hives all do it.

So that is all 15 hives at a site doing what only 3% of Hives would be expected to do in an entire outfit.
As it happened all of these 15 hives were overwintered autumn splits from a single site 20km away.

All looked really promising until treated, after which I wrote the entire site off as a lost cause.

3 Hives died and the rest produced a good crop.
However, that same site was part of an Autumn OA trial and even although it trialed well, it wasn't as good as the other sites.

It was a low lying cold site by a river that was shaded by large Pines

The site it came from was very shaded as well, but not so damp.

This donor site received very little Sun all day, even in mid summer.

That site that dumped Bees is still part of the trial so it will be interesting to see if it does the same this spring.

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@Philbee
Could there be some chemical reaction in the strips that affects the moisture level in the hives .

I only had three hives to put strips in but the warm dry sites never looked back .

The hive that struggled had many reasons to do so but I think I would be carefull now about putting strips in a weaker hive in a colder damp spot.

I think you need a certain no of bees per volume of space for warm and dry and strips may alter that equation.

 

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1 hour ago, kaihoka said:

@Philbee
Could there be some chemical reaction in the strips that affects the moisture level in the hives .

I only had three hives to put strips in but the warm dry sites never looked back .

The hive that struggled had many reasons to do so but I think I would be carefull now about putting strips in a weaker hive in a colder damp spot.

I think you need a certain no of bees per volume of space for warm and dry and strips may alter that equation.

 

it's probably not the damp itself but more likely to do with a condition in the hive that is caused by the damp.

A damp hive may be loaded with one or more pathogens that make it weak which predispose it by one means or another to reacting badly to oa, gl.

interestingly the hives I describe above looked good until I treated them which indicated to me that sick hives can appear ok until stressed  at which time they collapse.

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I used to have a damp site long time ago and everything got solved as soon as I switched to mesh floors. Good insulation at the top and even a small amount of bees will live happily.

However a really small colony is worth to combine with what is available(strong or weak hive). There is no point to keep very small colonies from autumn till late spring and then blame the treatments and the weather. Therefore more colonies in an apiary make the beekeeper's job easier. With all that in mind it is never gonna be perfect.

 

Meanwhile is time to make more juice for the spring staples. I plan a 50/50(3 kg/3 kg) solution and add in the left over from late autumn(that was made 35/65 ratio - 2-2.5L left).

 

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2 hours ago, Kiwi Bee said:

I used to have a damp site long time ago and everything got solved as soon as I switched to mesh floors. Good insulation at the top and even a small amount of bees will live happily.

However a really small colony is worth to combine with what is available(strong or weak hive). There is no point to keep very small colonies from autumn till late spring and then blame the treatments and the weather. Therefore more colonies in an apiary make the beekeeper's job easier. With all that in mind it is never gonna be perfect.

 

Meanwhile is time to make more juice for the spring staples. I plan a 50/50(3 kg/3 kg) solution and add in the left over from late autumn(that was made 35/65 ratio - 2-2.5L left).

 

A couple of points here

50/50 can cause gelling of solution which will prevent full soaking.

I wouldn't add in old solution as it may be of reduced effectiveness.

Its such an inexpensive solution its not worth the risk.

 

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when do you refresh OA staples? 

 

sorry if this has been discussed before, but its a very long thread. I put in some of Phils OA staples as autumn treatment, most of the hives have been surprisingly easy on them and have barely chewed them.

 

How do you know when to pull and replace the staples? just keep and eye on drops and alcohol wash and replace them when mite levels begin to climb?

 

thanks:-) 

 

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I'm putting more fresh ones in now to replace march staples, they expire just like most things so it pays to keep things up to date especially if they are chewed or look worn and discoloured. 

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, lexy said:

when do you refresh OA staples? 

 

sorry if this has been discussed before, but its a very long thread. I put in some of Phils OA staples as autumn treatment, most of the hives have been surprisingly easy on them and have barely chewed them.

 

How do you know when to pull and replace the staples? just keep and eye on drops and alcohol wash and replace them when mite levels begin to climb?

 

thanks:-) 

 

If mites numbers start to climb you are too late because by the time the mite factory shows an increase in production the brood is full of Mites.
Mine stay in over winter so I can wring the last few percent out of them and because it saves another job in winter.
By the time Spring comes around its a safe bet the overwintered ones are good for nothing

Edited by Philbee
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6 hours ago, lexy said:

when do you refresh OA staples? 

 

sorry if this has been discussed before, but its a very long thread. I put in some of Phils OA staples as autumn treatment, most of the hives have been surprisingly easy on them and have barely chewed them.

 

How do you know when to pull and replace the staples? just keep and eye on drops and alcohol wash and replace them when mite levels begin to climb?

 

thanks:-) 

 

 

The chewing doesn't matter it is the contact that is important.  I find that in a busy hive through Spring/Summer there is about one month of life in the strips before the solution has passed out of them.   You can also do a taste test and if they still have plenty of "tang" you know there is life left in them. Other than that it is just standard monitoring by shakes or alc wash if you prefer.

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definitive! thanks I'll put in an order before the spring rush😀

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B01C0CE5-6D0A-47B2-AF80-98496CB86297.jpeg

OK .... day one of the new season was'nt exactly awe inspiring, except that it was a stunningly beautifull day ..... too cold to start opening hives until mid morning ...... and this is what we found.  Quite  a lot like this ..... the good the bad , and the plain old ugly.

But ..... we are beekeepers right ?  It's not like we got a whole heap of dead cows or deer ...... I 'aint ever seen a dead cow or deer come back to life in a month or so .....

 

It's just frustrating because we obviously have'nt  got on top of our game as to how to use this new technology to our advantage.

So, we'll just try again ..... and try to do better.

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Posted (edited)
19 minutes ago, jamesc said:

B01C0CE5-6D0A-47B2-AF80-98496CB86297.jpeg

OK .... day one of the new season was'nt exactly awe inspiring, except that it was a stunningly beautifull day ..... too cold to start opening hives until mid morning ...... and this is what we found.  Quite  a lot like this ..... the good the bad , and the plain old ugly.

But ..... we are beekeepers right ?  It's not like we got a whole heap of dead cows or deer ...... I 'aint ever seen a dead cow or deer come back to life in a month or so .....

 

It's just frustrating because we obviously have'nt  got on top of our game as to how to use this new technology to our advantage.

So, we'll just try again ..... and try to do better.

What's your diagnosis ? Clearly been dead a while since the strips aren't chewed recently . Not robbed either, so they  got into winter, part way.

I have hives down on the peat that winter badly . They just fade away and it is not varroa, but they don't die out completely or abscond. They get down to a very small population , then build back up. 

Are you testing the max dose ? That's a lot of Staples 

Edited by M4tt

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8 minutes ago, M4tt said:

What's your diagnosis ? Clearly been dead a while since the strips aren't chewed recently . Not robbed either, so they  got into winter, part way.

I have hives down on the peat that winter badly . They just fade away and it is not varroa, but they don't die out completely or abscond. They get down to a very small population , then build back up. 

Are you testing the max dose ? That's a lot of Staples 

Not sure what my diagnosis is ..... PPBK ...  ?   These hives looked good in May ..... the staples still had a little zing left in the lick test, so we added four more for the winter. Many of the hives have been robbed out .  The survivors look good ..... box of bees , box of honey  That is the frustrating part.

Life is funny. We took the cheap option because we were (are)  skint , but it probably was'nt that cheap !

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10 minutes ago, jamesc said:

Not sure what my diagnosis is ..... PPBK ...  ?   These hives looked good in May ..... the staples still had a little zing left in the lick test, so we added four more for the winter. Many of the hives have been robbed out .  The survivors look good ..... box of bees , box of honey  That is the frustrating part.

Life is funny. We took the cheap option because we were (are)  skint , but it probably was'nt that cheap !

I’d rule out PPBK . It won’t be varroa 

 

Something else has gotten them .....

 

 

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Was there any capped brood left in any of the hives?  Or, a patch of capped brood and nurse bees and the Queen?  If so I have an idea...

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10 minutes ago, CraBee said:

Was there any capped brood left in any of the hives?  Or, a patch of capped brood and nurse bees and the Queen?  If so I have an idea...

Nah ..... there were  few mice.

I would suggest that this is classic varroa collapse. A lot of the hives were new queens. Of interest ..... and I like this part ..... quite a few of the survivors were Nana queens .... cells we got off Glynn at Kirwee Bees last spring . Survivors.

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17 minutes ago, CraBee said:

Was there any capped brood left in any of the hives?  Or, a patch of capped brood and nurse bees and the Queen?  If so I have an idea...

Do tell 

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1 minute ago, M4tt said:

Do tell 

I was reading Randy Oliver's latest releases last night and wondered about Nosema:

http://scientificbeekeeping.com/the-enigma-of-nosema/

It seems not for James....

I also have sites that don't Winter well and hives dwindle in numbers.  It is not varroa, they just don't seem to do well.

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Just now, CraBee said:

I was reading Randy Oliver's latest releases last night and wondered about Nosema:

http://scientificbeekeeping.com/the-enigma-of-nosema/

It seems not for James....

I also have sites that don't Winter well and hives dwindle in numbers.  It is not varroa, they just don't seem to do well.

Thanks for the link 

Nosema been suggested to me before about mine . 

Quite possibly my issue on the peat 

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we have had a few hives looking the same, strips all good, plenty of stores. capped brood, but in all the ones that did have a small hand full of dead brood there were no queens,  no afb,

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1 hour ago, jamesc said:

B01C0CE5-6D0A-47B2-AF80-98496CB86297.jpeg

OK .... day one of the new season was'nt exactly awe inspiring, except that it was a stunningly beautifull day ..... too cold to start opening hives until mid morning ...... and this is what we found.  Quite  a lot like this ..... the good the bad , and the plain old ugly.

But ..... we are beekeepers right ?  It's not like we got a whole heap of dead cows or deer ...... I 'aint ever seen a dead cow or deer come back to life in a month or so .....

 

It's just frustrating because we obviously have'nt  got on top of our game as to how to use this new technology to our advantage.

So, we'll just try again ..... and try to do better.

Iv been using synthetics on my second winter round on anything that's not pumping, if its a bit weak you don't want to knock them back further, add some pollen patty, a bit of syrip to stimulate them and they will be ready for  the honey flow. 

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Just now, Maru Hoani said:

and they will be ready for  the honey flow. 

.....which James probably doesn't particularly want....I think you are quite priviledged Maru.

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2 minutes ago, yesbut said:

.....which James probably doesn't particularly want....I think you are quite priviledged Maru.

Amen to that Yesbut.  I am quite philosophical about it ..... we don't need a honey crop this year, so lets keep playing around with learning how to keep the bees alive.

As Philbee commented the other day,  'we obviously need to up our game', somehow.  

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1 minute ago, yesbut said:

.....which James probably doesn't particularly want....I think you are quite priviledged Maru.

Thank you for reminding me things are easier from the top but I have had hardship in the past, losing hives to mites isn't something I haven't been through in the past.

 

Beekeeping is a totally different game now days and it will be interesting to see how many pull through and keep pumping in the next few seasons. 

22 hours ago, Maru Hoani said:

Thank you for reminding me things are easier from the top but I have had hardship in the past, losing hives to mites isn't something I haven't been through in the past.

 

Beekeeping is a totally different game now days and it will be interesting to see how many pull through and keep pumping in the next few seasons. 

Today's hungry hives got 7L each, absolutely pumping. 

Only staples from march, seems my black bees are doing way better than my italians

IMG_20190806_100025-2340x3120.jpg

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Posted (edited)

Yep Bro .... that hive is pumping. What does the next one look like ?

Today I sorted out a beehive morgue ..... that's a paddock on the farm I am  gonna store dud hives in as I got no room in the shed  , amalgamating live hives onto pallets and despatching the dud pallets to the morgue to either get eaten out by mice or the wax moth. At least I won't have to look at them every time I go into a bee yard.

I did have a thought to go to take a punt  and take ownership of 300 or so Northland hives  that are on Trademe and split the the garbage out of them , flicking off nucs to cover the cost and retaining some to sort my own duds, and of course getting a foothold in Maru's neck of the woods.  Seems like some of the neighbours here have 50% losses.

Edited by jamesc

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