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Oxalic and glycerine

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So James what happened to the honey boxes from the Coast hive with AFB,spread around through the outfit or back on the same hive the boxes came off?

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1 hour ago, Bighands said:

So James what happened to the honey boxes from the Coast hive with AFB,spread around through the outfit or back on the same hive the boxes came off?

Yep .... gone into the big stack in the shed to come out again next season.  And that's why we'll probably never eradicate AFB .... eight boxes gone through the extractor, 72 frames spewed out at the other end and put back into how many more boxes ..... 12 -14 ....12-14  new hives waiting to get infected. Unless the hives picked up the lurgy after the crop had been taken off .... dunno.

Which is why it is SO IMPORTANT to have a trained eye doing the disease inspection when taking honey off. 

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2 hours ago, M4tt said:

From my observations on my very small scale by comparison , the staples must be bang in the middle of the brood in the late summer/ autumn period. 

 

Where the queen has moved laying away from the staples into box three of 3 X 3/4, and the staples are no longer touching any brood or very many bees , I have seen mites on bees . 

 

I will keep moving staples with the bees and brood and observe if any succomb to mites , but at  this stage I’m confident enough to say that if the staples aren’t in the brood , they ain’t working . 

I had my staples in the brood and you thought it looked messy . I rearranged them .

I shall move them back .

I think as the brood shrinks in autumn they need to be chasing the brood .

But now the hakea is flowering the brood may not shrink .

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Last lot of staples I put in hives had an amount of crystallised Oxalic on them. It doesn’t seem to have affected the bees. It definitely kills varroa though. 

 

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Results of early Feb treatments most hives   3 boxes of bees I think the amount of old bees in the hive keeps the cluster larger we had a brood less stage in April now seeing eggs and grubs. Can't add photos still learning new phone. Still running 4 parts oxclic 6 glycerin by volume getting 6 to 8 weeks out of the precut ovaboard strips. I've got some hives to check as part of disease monitoring so will take photos off the sticky boards as I will be able to do side by side between bav api and ox   

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On 2/05/2019 at 8:39 PM, yesbut said:

Maybe Randy Oliver had this in mind when he started playing around with towels between boxes

Randy found that in the dry climate of California shop towels worked in singles

However in the humid State of Georgia they were much less effective because Georgia has a humid climate and the Glycerol in the towel outside the Brood nest absorbs that moisture ruining the Oxalic solution.

Our New Zealand climate can do the same.

However when the shop towel is used in a Double there is a higher chance that it will be within the climate controlled zone of the Brood Nest and therefore work better than in a single.
This contributed to the inconsistent results from OA/GL Shop Towel system in New Zealand.

 

Staples on the other hand are much more suitable than shop towels for placement between the frames within the Brood Nest where the Humidity is highly regulated.

Shortly I will post a video of still shots of Late Autumn Hives in outstanding condition, all with Staples inserted within the Brood Nest.
 



 


 

Here is a Video of stills that I threw together today while out and about tending to my Staple Efficacy trial
The hives in the video are Hives opened consecutively for photos and not the pick of the bunch, just typical Hives in my operation.

They have all been treated exclusively with Staples for 2 or more seasons and this season just spring and Autumn.

Vast majority  have low to zero mite counts after a month of treatment and will bolt through to Spring

Every one of them has Staples in the Brood nest

https://youtu.be/VmFuFjc8JZQ

There may be a couple of double up photos, 

On 4/05/2019 at 10:35 AM, glynn said:

Results of early Feb treatments most hives   3 boxes of bees I think the amount of old bees in the hive keeps the cluster larger we had a brood less stage in April now seeing eggs and grubs. Can't add photos still learning new phone. Still running 4 parts oxclic 6 glycerin by volume getting 6 to 8 weeks out of the precut ovaboard strips. I've got some hives to check as part of disease monitoring so will take photos off the sticky boards as I will be able to do side by side between bav api and ox   

That 4 parts/6 parts works out to 31% OA by weight
Does that sound about right to you?

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A hobbyist down here set his hive on fire the other day.   He put staples in a few weeks ago and then last week went and used a vaporiser on the hive.  The Vaporiser heated up staple hanging down between the frames and  it caught fire.  It was only when the beek removed the blocking on the hive after the treatment did he realise - as smoke was billowing out.   So just a precautionary tale.  -  be careful when vaping a hive when you have staples in..

Luckily he had a supply of water to dowse it with

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Mind boggling.

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20 minutes ago, Bees said:

A hobbyist down here set his hive on fire the other day.   He put staples in a few weeks ago and then last week went and used a vaporiser on the hive.  The Vaporiser heated up staple hanging down between the frames and  it caught fire.  It was only when the beek removed the blocking on the hive after the treatment did he realise - as smoke was billowing out.   So just a precautionary tale.  -  be careful when vaping a hive when you have staples in..

Luckily he had a supply of water to dowse it with

 

Why would someone vape a hive with OA when there are OA staples in a hive already?

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To check for mite drop - I believe.  I

  I had never thought about it myself but I guess it’s a lot less invasive compared to alcohol test

It’s a fact that beeks will keep “playing” with the tools they have.    It is still a learning curve with the staples.  I suspect he might have had a 3/4 box on and staple hanging down below caused it.

It’s Lee here Phil. I just thought I should post what happened with one of the hobbyists..    It wasn’t something I covered when I introduced the staples to the club. 

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2 hours ago, Bees said:

To check for mite drop - I believe.  I

  I had never thought about it myself but I guess it’s a lot less invasive compared to alcohol test

It’s a fact that beeks will keep “playing” with the tools they have.    It is still a learning curve with the staples.  I suspect he might have had a 3/4 box on and staple hanging down below caused it.

It’s Lee here Phil. I just thought I should post what happened with one of the hobbyists..    It wasn’t something I covered when I introduced the staples to the club. 

Hi lee

Ive tried dry ones in my smoker and they dont work.

One point about mite drop which is worth noting

Weaker hives with sick Bees are less active than good Hives and this slows down the spread of the OA/GL.
To mitigate this its best to cram weak Hives into a single or even a nuc so that there is heat and activity around the Staples  

Although in Summer heat this needs to be accompanied by ventilation 

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Thanks for that Phil.   I have checked with hobbyist and we are thinking that possibly he set light to one of the frames as it may have been in contact with the vapouriser.    I have seen that vapes can cause heat issues in a hive if you don’t open the entrance wide enough to allow the vape plate enough room not to be wedged on the floor or against frames when it’s smoking.     He is going to do full check in next few days to confirm..

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For vaporizing I built a tray from ply and pine rim with a small cut for the vap's bar. I can set this under each hive - I use mesh floors - and it works perfectly fine.

 

My staples had two sewing(zig-zag) each side(not right on the edge but close) and few strong hives demolished them.

The next lot I plan to use straight sewing but using a double needle - see how long they last.

Another plan is to make a four layers staple batch for next season.

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16 hours ago, Kiwi Bee said:

My staples had two sewing(zig-zag) each side(not right on the edge but close) and few strong hives demolished them.

The next lot I plan to use straight sewing but using a double needle - see how long they last.

Another plan is to make a four layers staple batch for next season.

 

Mine were the same and treated the same by the bees. I think a tighter straight stitch might work better. Or not...

 

My latest batch were 4 ply narrows. Put them in a week ago and found the stiffness forced them hard up against the brood, which is now dead (trapped in cells). 

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@CHCHPaul I use 9 frames per box(brood and honey supers too) so my frames are a bit more spread..... and yes they build up some propolis between the frames, however there is plenty of room for the strips.

I will agree that not everybody likes the 9 frames per brood box configuration.

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24 minutes ago, Kiwi Bee said:

@CHCHPaul I use 9 frames per box(brood and honey supers too) so my frames are a bit more spread..... and yes they build up some propolis between the frames, however there is plenty of room for the strips.

I will agree that not everybody likes the 9 frames per brood box configuration.

 

Will be interesting to see if you get the same brood deaths that I do when you start using the four layer staples. 

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On 4/05/2019 at 5:44 PM, Philbee said:

Randy found that in the dry climate of California shop towels worked in singles

However in the humid State of Georgia they were much less effective because Georgia has a humid climate and the Glycerol in the towel outside the Brood nest absorbs that moisture ruining the Oxalic solution.

Our New Zealand climate can do the same.

However when the shop towel is used in a Double there is a higher chance that it will be within the climate controlled zone of the Brood Nest and therefore work better than in a single.
This contributed to the inconsistent results from OA/GL Shop Towel system in New Zealand.

 

Staples on the other hand are much more suitable than shop towels for placement between the frames within the Brood Nest where the Humidity is highly regulated.

Shortly I will post a video of still shots of Late Autumn Hives in outstanding condition, all with Staples inserted within the Brood Nest.
 



 


 

Here is a Video of stills that I threw together today while out and about tending to my Staple Efficacy trial
The hives in the video are Hives opened consecutively for photos and not the pick of the bunch, just typical Hives in my operation.

They have all been treated exclusively with Staples for 2 or more seasons and this season just spring and Autumn.

Vast majority  have low to zero mite counts after a month of treatment and will bolt through to Spring

Every one of them has Staples in the Brood nest

https://youtu.be/VmFuFjc8JZQ

There may be a couple of double up photos, 

That 4 parts/6 parts works out to 31% OA by weight
Does that sound about right to you?

Yes Phil I was using 3 parts ox to 7 glycerin but using them on some hives with bad varroa that had only synthetic treatments the mite drop and hive health was not as quick as I would like.

With my hives they didn't have the same problem as they already had a low might count. I don't have any problem with humidity ether wet or dry

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I’m finding that wax moth really like the frass that falls through my mesh bases from the staples. I’ve got two sites that they seem to be thriving in it... doesn’t happen with solid bottom boards. 

 

Anyone else noticed this unwanted side effect?

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3 minutes ago, CHCHPaul said:

I’m finding that wax moth really like the frass that falls through my mesh bases from the staples. I’ve got two sites that they seem to be thriving in it... doesn’t happen with solid bottom boards. 

 

Anyone else noticed this unwanted side effect?

 

At least it keeps them out of your comb 

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33 minutes ago, CHCHPaul said:

I’m finding that wax moth really like the frass that falls through my mesh bases from the staples. I’ve got two sites that they seem to be thriving in it... doesn’t happen with solid bottom boards. 

 

Anyone else noticed this unwanted side effect?

Lol

If you used the overlocked EP's you wouldn't get that frass this time of year

However when that stuff builds up on a solid floor it can be considered bonus as the Bees clamber through it, further  spreading the OA about

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Just very quick update and still no photos I'll put them up on the book of face. I've just finished doing the exotic pest monitoring on 10 of my own sites.

Some interesting results first the bad one site was splits that had oxclic strips in November they for one reason and another they missed the treatments in February. Still little bits of strip on the top of the frames but that's all.Hives are now only really one box of bees 24 hr mite drop was bad lines of mites along the gaps but interesting about on par with some hives that had bav in the hives early Feb and removed after 8 weeks I only have the hive owners word on timing ECT. Hives in the high risk zones high hive numbers ie Rolleston treated Feb 24 hr drop low 2s and 3s one high of 10 mites hive size 3 to 4 boxes high full of bees. Still thin strips of ovaboard on frames.

Lessons learned

1 one treatment per year is a pipe dream

2 strips put in February are still actively killing mites bace boards have layers of dead mites

Survey 10 sites apairy sizes ranged from 4 hives to 10 .

Area Kirwee to Rolly.

Also I've got some time with Randy Oliver coming up anyone got any questions?

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Really happy with the results, checked 3 sites today that staples been in for over 8 weeks and done 2 alcohol washes at each site at random with 0 mites from all 6 washes!

I bought apitraz just in case but looks like I nolonger need it. 

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I spoke with a Stapler today who was pleased also, however he did get caught out on some sites in high density areas with re invasion.
His experience is typical and next Autumn he will use a 4 week rotation in those sites.

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