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Oxalic and glycerine

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And there I will leave you with it gentlemen ... ladies. The Faux pig dog Clown  is home ..... her boy Jester  says he is hungry too .

2 minutes ago, Stoney said:

I look forward to seeing some results, we decided due to our fantastic reinvasion infestations from our wonderfully close minded backward neighbours .. that we will just pull em out and replace with fresh... it would be great to be able to swab them and have a colour show if they've done their dash... feels so wasteful but have no way of telling otherwise.. 

Good thinking ... I did wonder if we had mixed up a dud brew.

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26 minutes ago, Stoney said:

I look forward to seeing some results, we decided due to our fantastic reinvasion infestations from our wonderfully close minded backward neighbours .. that we will just pull em out and replace with fresh... it would be great to be able to swab them and have a colour show if they've done their dash... feels so wasteful but have no way of telling otherwise.. 

 

Taste it, if it has plenty of tang it is still good to go.

33 minutes ago, Philbee said:

This why my efficacy trial is now going to run into Spring
Part of it is about the Staples ability to remain effective for a stated period which for the 4 layer EP should be 4 weeks in Spring
 

Yup four weeks in a busy hive is where I'd put it.  

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Hmm ... so we need a rethink on Modus Operandi ..... four weeks takes us to the end of February  .... but march we are still way too busy taking off honey to go back and replace staples  ..... first week of April is when we aim to restart wintering ..... which is why I am thinking an Apivar summer treatement ... sometimes cheap is not so cheap.

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8 hours ago, CraBee said:

 

Taste it, if it has plenty of tang it is still good to go.

Yup four weeks in a busy hive is where I'd put it.  

 

Would it be possible to put a number on the tang? Like a Ph test?

Had a poke through mine - the mite count remains static at between 0-3 per hive. There has been a lot of robbing so I’m wondering if that’s the source.

 

The single stitch staples are looking a bit battle worn, and I shuffled them about. Some disintegrated, particularly around the top bar section where they had been stuck with propolis and seemed damp.

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1 hour ago, cBank said:

 

Would it be possible to put a number on the tang? Like a Ph test?

Had a poke through mine - the mite count remains static at between 0-3 per hive. There has been a lot of robbing so I’m wondering if that’s the source.

 

The single stitch staples are looking a bit battle worn, and I shuffled them about. Some disintegrated, particularly around the top bar section where they had been stuck with propolis and seemed damp.

I think at this time of year you really have to keep reducing the space the bees occupy so it is crowded and warm .

The sun is getting quite low in the sky and the environment is getting damper .

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On 25/04/2019 at 7:45 PM, Philbee said:

we have a real problem in NZ with too many Hives.

And or too many migratory hives,

And or too many Urban Hives
 

and or too many beeks letting multiple swarms go to provide mid-late-weird season mite bombs when the resulting wild colonies collapse?

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Posted (edited)

late today I shot out for a peek in some Hives
I opened 3 random hives and they produced Mite counts of 2,1,1,

Last treated 18-2-19 and prior to that August 1918
All three looked like this one.
Note where the Staples are placed.
 

3 like this today 26-4-19.jpg

26-4-19.jpg

Edited by Philbee
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Wow 100 years between treatments ,surely you must have mite resistant bees Phill,.

no wonder the oxalic strips seem to be working so well.

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I read on the facebook "Backyard Beekeeping NZ" group where someone posted a comment claiming that this method of treatment kills brood where it is placed. Is this true, or is their comment simply misinformation?

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46 minutes ago, EasyBee said:

I read on the facebook "Backyard Beekeeping NZ" group where someone posted a comment claiming that this method of treatment kills brood where it is placed. Is this true, or is their comment simply misinformation?

You should try mite away quick strips, they will even kill you if you don't wear PPE, staples got nothing on those

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4 hours ago, EasyBee said:

I read on the facebook "Backyard Beekeeping NZ" group where someone posted a comment claiming that this method of treatment kills brood where it is placed. Is this true, or is their comment simply misinformation?

Yes the strips can kill brood directly under them when first placed in the hive. I have seen this happen although after a period of time I have inspected the brood frames and have found the queen happily laying eggs under a strip and healthy developing larvae, pupae in surround cells.

My advise is not to worry about it as it is a minor or temporary side effect.

Do be careful when placing strips that the queen isn’t caught underneath, that same advise applies to synthetic strips too.

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6 hours ago, EasyBee said:

I read on the facebook "Backyard Beekeeping NZ" group where someone posted a comment claiming that this method of treatment kills brood where it is placed. Is this true, or is their comment simply misinformation?

Its true, the Staple kills Brood, but far less brood than Varroa kills

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5 minutes ago, Philbee said:

Its true, the Staple kills Brood, but far less brood than Varroa kills

I saw no sign of the staples having any affect on laying or brood in my hives .

The staples were layed under 

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Just now, kaihoka said:

I saw no sign of the staples having any affect on laying or brood in my hives .

The staples were layed under 

Worst case scenario

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The only dead brood I have seen is when I place strips over capped brood , it appears as though sometimes the brood is unable to hatch because of the thickness of the strips 

I use solid fibre strips.

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This is an issue that comes up often
There tends to be two ways that Beeks place Staples and one way results in less Brood damage.

Some Beeks remove an edge frame, spread the remaining frames out, insert the staples then press the frames back to their original position by replacing the edge frame that they initially removed.
This method often results in Brood damage because if there happens to be burr comb or any other proud contour in line with the Staple when the frames move back together  this proud feature will cause the staple to be press firmly against the comb which in all likelihood will contain capped Brood.

 

The preferred method is to refrain from placing the Staples until you have completed your inspection and replaced all frames.
The burr comb near the top of the frame is cleared away at the desired location and the Staple is jiggled down between the frames

This results in a looser fit of the Staple and results in much less brood damage.

The newer Staples are now 25% thicker for the wides and 33% thicker for the narrows so are much more rigid, aiding insertion.

 

Another important but unrelated point that needs to be clarified
This point came up at the ApiNZ Waikato Hub field day on Saturday.
There are photos on this thread and possibly other places that show Staples in Honey Supers above the Queen excluder

I also make reference to such arrangements when speaking about the Staple.
This is not a practice that I recommend and not one that I use in production hives.
In my case this practice is for observation purposes and the Honey is being left on for winter feed.

 

There is one substantial Hive in my operation that has has 20 staples in 4 boxes above and excluder for 2 seasons continuously.
This Hive is one of those freak hives that sometimes appear but then fade to mediocrity or die over winter.

One of the purposes of this observation Hive should the opportunity arise  is to have its Honey stores checked for Oxalic Acid residue.

The Hive currently has a Mite count of 1/350 bees and considering its size and forage /robbing power I consider that count to be very low.
 

 
 
 

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OK Boss ..... only another two days of putting more staples into  bees for the winter.

The assumption was the mother of all  ***** up's . And I made a major assumption that I could put staples in a and walk way for a couple of weeks.

 

So, moving forward and following the  adage  that horse trainer of repute Mr Pat Parelli  drummed into us years ago  ..... 'Prior and proper preparation prevents P poor performance '  .....  

The next stage of the Staples Treatement regime to ensure our survivors come out the other end.    Sugar shake in  three weeks to a month and re treat accordingly, or an O/A fume in a month, or crack 'em all open again and do an acid dribble ..... or just whack them with Bayvarol  so we can get some 'Time Out ?'

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That all seems like an awful lot of work. Do  you really need all those bees to produce another heap of honey to find a home for next year ? 

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2 minutes ago, yesbut said:

That all seems like an awful lot of work. Do  you really need all those bees to produce another heap of honey to find a home for next year ? 

I have a feeling the market for dud boxes eaten out by the wax moth is pretty slim .... so I need live bees to sell. 

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Posted (edited)

Site visit today. It’s been a month since I looked in on these girls. 2 months with staples in. All 20 hives looking healthy with good populations and heaps of Kai for winter.

FCA46535-18CC-405D-8BE9-525F0F4CB0D1.thumb.jpeg.4afbe3ee4e37fa6efaf66ad4937e2444.jpeg09E9A26C-6D2A-4861-89CF-D77017C6F38E.thumb.jpeg.4448eb1e9e67ed5c883a043fe9a3c470.jpeg

 

Edited by dansar
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Posted (edited)

I started the second round of the staple efficacy trial today

Staples in 4 weeks 
There are lots of zero,1, 2 mite counts  and overall the mites have been slayed in the first four weeks
So much so that Ive decided to leave all the Staples in to do at least another 2 weeks before changing out.
Here is the data for the most radical reduction in mite numbers

This hive like all in the trial was spring treated then 4 weeks ago and inspected today.

Decreased from 47/300 to 6/300

IMG_2843.JPG

IMG_2982.JPG

Edited by Philbee
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Posted (edited)

OK .... We all but finished wintering today.

Wintering involved cruising around putting another four  staples in all the live hives, and checking weights

 

So this is a a wrap up to the season. It is merely an observation and highly un scientific, but left us with lots of questions.

 

During the firat part of the season from August until early December all bees were run with O/A staples.

They went out to summer sites in November.

 

The bees come home from their  summer sites and are wintered on Honey Dew sites on the Black beech. Some year it yields, some years it does'nt. This year it did good.

We started taking honey off on January 8 over on the Coast. By January 21 all  we had brought home all the Coast Honey home. All hives had 4 staples added.

Janaury 22 we started working the east coast bees.

By February 6 all coast bees were home on the dew.

By February 14 all the East coast honey was off the hives, staples in, and bees moving upto dew.

 

We spent the rest of the month extracting and fiddling around. It's funny how the weeks drift by.

We started wintering April 1.

 

Varroa was most definitely an issue. Some hives were dead. Many had DWV. But all had gathered good stores to keep them going for the next three months.

Main man took two weeks off for the school holidays and I pottered on.  A yard that had succumbed to spray damage at christmas had perked up and had few Varroa issues.

Other yards were 60%dead.

This week we tidied things up.  Some yards of 96 that had come from two summer sites in the same locality were like chalk and cheese. One memorable Skid 16 had most hives in one 'half' dead, while the other 'half' of the truckload were pumping. Same treatment, same area .... why?

 

The best yard had been treated with Apivar. All hives bar two were absolutely pumping .... the two duds were drone layers.

 The last yard we did today is fittingly called End. Road End.   It was the first yard we pulled honey from on January 8 ..... a remote site in Westland.  I was expecting disaster but came way surprised. Happy bees, mostly alive with nice brood and heavy stores.

 

So lotsa questions after a full year of O/A.  So many variations, there seemed to be no clear pattern as to why some died and others thrived.

For a commercial operation such as we run .... 1500 hives with two men on the ground and a couple of casuals in peak time ..... O/A worked fine in the spring when we were around avery three weeks. In late summer when the interval between visits got stretched out as we got embroiled in moving ,extracting and farming  the pressure came on the bees and  the wintering tally shows. I'm not brave enough to count up the deads, but there are a lot. 

 

Moving forward, we need to mite count a couple of hives in every yard at the end of May, and probably again in early July. I am hoping they will be low as I am not sure yet of the plan if they are not.

 

 

 

 

Edited by jamesc
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From my observations on my very small scale by comparison , the staples must be bang in the middle of the brood in the late summer/ autumn period. 

 

Where the queen has moved laying away from the staples into box three of 3 X 3/4, and the staples are no longer touching any brood or very many bees , I have seen mites on bees . 

 

I will keep moving staples with the bees and brood and observe if any succomb to mites , but at  this stage I’m confident enough to say that if the staples aren’t in the brood , they ain’t working . 

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As a PS, part of the wintering routine is to check brood for AFB.

I was interested to see how much we found in hives that had come out of the canterbury death zone where 189 had been burnt a few months ago.

This autumn we picked up 5.

Two came from one pallet in our quarantine yard

Two came from a site onthe coast that i must have missed at honey pull...

an this little piggy was a nuc at christmas that stsyed in the dew.... and a dog indicated on ten days ago. One cell.

5EF11574-F983-4E89-8C15-28063229CA5C.jpeg

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16 minutes ago, M4tt said:

I’m confident enough to say that if the staples aren’t in the brood , they ain’t working . 

Maybe Randy Oliver had this in mind when he started playing around with towels between boxes

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