Jump to content

Oxalic and glycerine


Recommended Posts

25 minutes ago, tony said:

I'm not so sure, you maybe right as I'm no data analysis, but my results aren't showing that, my results are showing strong healthy bees with no varroa at all present in the last two sample rounds,  but some of the viruses are still high, I'm on a 10% frame rotation on this site and  on a side note its been the same hives tested never moved same boxs gear etc apart from normal replacement of a broken box etc, since sampling started I have used acids as treatment, plus synthetic, thymol  and even drone culling. But I can't seem to shake some of the viruses, is it genetics? I have heaps of questions about this is there any one else on here that was part of the pathogen program us love to talk.

Have you tried heat treating the brood frames like they did for the Cororapa issue?

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 4.6k
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

Hi All, I don't have time to follow every chat group, but I got a notification about this one.  I'm interested in your experiences with OA/gly in NZ, so please feel free to contact me directly at

You are obviously still young . I try and leave the bathroom before the steam has cleared .

This is an issue that comes up often There tends to be two ways that Beeks place Staples and one way results in less Brood damage. Some Beeks remove an edge frame, spread the remaining frames o

Posted Images

26 minutes ago, tony said:

I'm not so sure, you maybe right as I'm no data analysis, but my results aren't showing that, my results are showing strong healthy bees with no varroa at all present in the last two sample rounds,  but some of the viruses are still high, I'm on a 10% frame rotation on this site and  on a side note its been the same hives tested never moved same boxs gear etc apart from normal replacement of a broken box etc, since sampling started I have used acids as treatment, plus synthetic, thymol  and even drone culling. But I can't seem to shake some of the viruses, is it genetics? I have heaps of questions about this is there any one else on here that was part of the pathogen program us love to talk.

 

Tony, there is research on this, in short wax from varroa dead-outs had higher levels of DWV in in than normal wax, and these virus were transmitted to pupae.  However if the frames were rested ie taken out of action for 30 days the virus load dropped significantly.  See here:  

 for the research.

 

  • Like 4
Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, tony said:

I'm not so sure, you maybe right as I'm no data analysis, but my results aren't showing that, my results are showing strong healthy bees with no varroa at all present in the last two sample rounds,  but some of the viruses are still high, I'm on a 10% frame rotation on this site and  on a side note its been the same hives tested never moved same boxs gear etc apart from normal replacement of a broken box etc, since sampling started I have used acids as treatment, plus synthetic, thymol  and even drone culling. But I can't seem to shake some of the viruses, is it genetics? I have heaps of questions about this is there any one else on here that was part of the pathogen program us love to talk.

Its appears that the Staple for whatever reason is the only OA delivery system that has the potential to really hammer the Bees causing this well documented initial die off.

There are two types of die off, localised  and in the field.

So unless you are seeing a reduction in Bee numbers at the initial few days of treatment then I would be of the view that the virus loads wont be affected by OA itself.

One of these days Ill try and plot the weight loss curve for a staple in the first 48 hours of use.


 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks guys yea, I'm well aware of a lot of this and been cleaning frames and gear for many years and as the years go on it gets more and more, cleaning any deads that come home, and I think I run pretty clean gear, I haven't done heat treatment however and to be honest it's not something that appeals to me at this stage, @feildbee is doing it currently and seems to be having results. The thing is I'm not seeing a lot of clinical case so I'm not overly worried about my virus levels it's more about understanding them and now knowing that it's not necessary a varroa problem, it is if you have varroa then it becomes a big problem, but I think I have the varroa sorted, I think I'll start a new topic a post my results so you guys can see them ill just talk with the program personal first to make sure I'm not crossing any lines

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, tony said:

I think I'll start a new topic a post my results so you guys can see them ill just talk with the program personal first to make sure I'm not crossing any lines

Great idea Tony and appreciate your openness about where your hives are at.   My guess, and it is a guess, that there are many viruses lurking in our hives most of the time and it only becomes a problem when bee health is compromised, when does this happen, I have no idea other than the obvious signs.  Like the rest of the living world really.

  • Agree 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
42 minutes ago, Philbee said:

Its appears that the Staple for whatever reason is the only OA delivery system that has the potential to really hammer the Bees causing this well documented initial die off.

There are two types of die off, localised  and in the field.

So unless you are seeing a reduction in Bee numbers at the initial few days of treatment then I would be of the view that the virus loads wont be affected by OA itself.

One of these days Ill try and plot the weight loss curve for a staple in the first 48 hours of use.


 

I guess there's a few things missing in this theory, one is where are the virus coming from to start with, if there have been no varroa counted in the past two rounds, so basicly a year, autumn and spring  sample, where are the virus coming from, if oa, and fa, reduce the viruses what does  reduce it by? and how?  It can't  just be the bees cause over that period of time they have naturally been and gone so now I have fa killing "sick bees", and oa killing "sick bees", and then natural life span " dead bees". No varroa spreading it?.

I'm not saying that the acids aren't doing it but how do you prove it unless you are testing for it, it may well be that these acids are helping and my levels could be way out of control if I wasn't. 

In theory I agree if you kill the "SICK"  bees you won't get a virus reading cause they dead,  but what is a sick bee? What level is considered sick?, and some of my readings are high with some and other viruses are non or low  while other beekeepers are high in the others?, but without seeing everyone's results the picture is not fully clear.

So trying to stay on topic my current view on acids is yes they help buying getting rid of sick bees and varroa but I'm not so sure they get rid of actual viruses at least not fully, still to many unknowns

  • Like 2
  • Good Info 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, tony said:

Yea I'd start a new topic on this but if I'm the only one of the 59 in the program on here there is not much point haha, I hate talking to myself.

I took part in the last round.  I just got my results last week.

They put me on the round as I have been using OA strips only for 18 months and they wanted to know if my bees were any different from other results.

I am happy to share.

  • Like 4
Link to post
Share on other sites

@tonywhat was tested(maybe I missed that part)? Bees only? What about honey from the "honey crowns"? The big majority of the bees feed themselves from that honey.

 

Just like at work. You team has a smoko in the lunchroom(lets pretend so).

Everybody drinks a tea from the same cup, while you have a nasty virus. Nec minute........ the whole team got it.

Because there in the hive are continuously new bees who did not have the virus before(sometime you get a virus and when it goes your immunsystem will manage to fight it next time) will get it easily and by the time they kind of survive it the next brood comes and gets it. Meanwhile the honey that the adult bees eat keeps the virus active in the hive. And the fresh nectar that just came into the hive will get contaminated too.

 

Put those bees with the virus on new foundation(or just put them into a new box without frames).

Let them draw some comb from the honey they may had in their mouth.

Then put them on another lot of new foundation.

 

When they fully drawn the frames and have all stage of brood, pollen, honey, get a sample for the labs. Maybe this way you manage to stop the virus spreading in a circle.

 

I meant next season.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hmm interesting, this is taking it to the next level, but you maybe on to something here, not sure if theres any research on this, basically if I can read between the lines your basically suggesting that the viruses are surviving in honey?. I like the theory.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
On 25/03/2019 at 11:27 AM, Philbee said:

The presentation I heard indicated that there was indeed some products that were able to safely control these pests but that isnt the end of it
There is a big potentially a huge difference between controlling at an apiary level and halting the spread at a national level.
 

I got them at 3 sites now and have tried heaps of different ways but each winter they're back and strong as ever. What is the best way to get rid of them? 

On 26/03/2019 at 8:26 AM, nikki watts said:

Yep, it must be too long for that area. This extended summer is going to make winter harder to manage the colonies. Heaps of bees to feed, and the queens haven’t slowed down yet. 

 

IMG_20190327_152335-2340x3120.jpg

Link to post
Share on other sites
20 minutes ago, Maru Hoani said:

I got them at 3 sites now and have tried heaps of different ways but each winter they're back and strong as ever. What is the best way to get rid of them? 

At the SNI field day a scientist spoke of a couple of products one of which was better in his opinion.

It may have been this one but cant remember

https://www.google.co.nz/aclk?sa=L&ai=DChcSEwj0kbrp-qHhAhVLho8KHcVkBUsYABAIGgJzYg&sig=AOD64_0BBFKd60t3DKKbaBuzuXP9n-g5ZA&ctype=5&q=&ved=0ahUKEwiuwLPp-qHhAhVUWX0KHWAKD3wQ9aACCDY&adurl=

Edited by Philbee
  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
19 minutes ago, Maru Hoani said:

I got them at 3 sites now and have tried heaps of different ways but each winter they're back and strong as ever. What is the best way to get rid of them? 

 

IMG_20190327_152335-2340x3120.jpg

Bayv out staples in, I only left one super on for the Bush flow so a lot of my hives are chocked out and pumping with their fourth treatment of the season

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Philbee said:

At the SNI field day a scientist spoke of a couple of products one of which was better in his opinion.

It may have been this one but cant remember

https://www.google.co.nz/aclk?sa=L&ai=DChcSEwj0kbrp-qHhAhVLho8KHcVkBUsYABAIGgJzYg&sig=AOD64_0BBFKd60t3DKKbaBuzuXP9n-g5ZA&ctype=5&q=&ved=0ahUKEwiuwLPp-qHhAhVUWX0KHWAKD3wQ9aACCDY&adurl=

The local contractor here uses vanquish. It’s easy to use, just keep the tube in the freezer between applications. 

1 hour ago, Maru Hoani said:

Bayv out staples in, I only left one super on for the Bush flow so a lot of my hives are chocked out and pumping with their fourth treatment of the season

Are you treating continuously??

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 27/03/2019 at 11:47 PM, nikki watts said:

The local contractor here uses vanquish. It’s easy to use, just keep the tube in the freezer between applications. 

Are you treating continuously??

Iv had to, past season I done only three treatments and lost 2 complete sites and one almost fell over losing half the site with the other half only just recovering after 3 oxalic vapes and hive alive feeding

  • Sad 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
41 minutes ago, Maru Hoani said:

Iv had to, past season I done only three treatments and lost 2 complete sites and one almost fell over losing half the site with the other half only just recovering after 3 oxalic vapes and hive alive feeding

Wow, that’s rough. What do you think is the cause ?? 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Neighbours who only treat twice, their hives get weak and mine are absolutely pumping and with bees the strong Rob the weak

Just now, Maru Hoani said:

Neighbours who only treat twice, their hives get weak and mine are absolutely pumping and with bees the strong Rob the weak

I'm now shifting sites to prevent this happening again 

  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
17 hours ago, Maru Hoani said:

Neighbours who only treat twice, their hives get weak and mine are absolutely pumping and with bees the strong Rob the weak

I'm now shifting sites to prevent this happening again 

 

I find this astounding! Are you shifting because you are picking up diseases from the weak neighbours? I would have thought that they would want to give up because they don’t do as well as you. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

3 AFBs so far this season at one site found at 3 different times, mites can be just as bad, I got 4 sites in one area that just produce a box of manuka on a good season then you get sum hobbyist put a dozen in right next door from out of town saying isn't there enough for us all? 

Link to post
Share on other sites
19 hours ago, Maru Hoani said:

Neighbours who only treat twice, their hives get weak and mine are absolutely pumping and with bees the strong Rob the weak

I'm now shifting sites to prevent this happening again 

 

About this time last year two of my best five sites, both with mostly strong hives, we getting smashed with varroa they were picking up from somewhere.  I lost half of the hives on each site and what were left were sick hives that limped through Spring.  It was mainly my fault - I was on top of the mites on these sites and got complacent.  Just as bad, my own hives no doubt became mite bombs of their own and affected other people's hives.    I'm keeping a watchful eye this season and all is OK so far....

Link to post
Share on other sites

×
×
  • Create New...