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Plus, a new forum being started would not achieve the goal of preventing new beekeepers being shared with and learning things in this commercial forum.

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new beekeepers being shared with and learning things

This is not what an exclusive forum is all about.

How is Commercial Beekeeping relevant to a beginner.

Why would Commercial Beeks want beginners to become Commercial beeks.

It is completely understandable that beginners would squeal at my proposition.

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This is not what an exclusive forum is all about.

How is Commercial Beekeeping relevant to a beginner.

Why would Commercial Beeks want beginners to become Commercial beeks.

It is completely understandable that beginners would squeal at my proposition.

 

On that basis if it was to work - all posts would be visible so that people could learn. There would be no "private" as in non visible section.

 

A commercial could start a post and reply in commercial

A commercial could not start a post but could reply in beginners

A beginner could not start a post nor reply in commercial

A beginner could start and reply to a post in beginners

A semi commercial would follow the commercial restrictions.

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This is not what an exclusive forum is all about.

How is Commercial Beekeeping relevant to a beginner.

Why would Commercial Beeks want beginners to become Commercial beeks.

It is completely understandable that beginners would squeal at my proposition.

I'm not going to argue any of that, my point was to express my own opinion that sharing knowledge is a good thing.

 

Which is different to commercially sensitive information I will grant you that point.

 

And even though the subject of the more recent posts morphed into proving that you Da Man, that is irrelevant to my point.

 

I cannot specifically say how commercial beekeeping is relevant to a beginner, other than any beekeeping is of interest to a beginner. Also can't imagine what special knowledge you have that could change the face of beekeeping if it fell into the hands of a beginner.

 

However as previously stated I have all my life but especially of more recent times been dealing with people with overgrandised ideas about themselves and their abilities, who have forgotten that they were ever a beginner, and got where they are through the generosity of others, but try to blot that fact from their memory, once they think that they have "arrived".

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There'd also be a flood of self promotions to "commercial" status too wouldn't there. There must be something in Spanish Heath.:mask:

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@Philbee, while I don't fully support your idea of a Commercial only page I am interested in where you are coming from and thinking of going to with the idea.

The Commercial pages have relevance to all beekeepers, big, small & smaller. We are all in the same playing field just at different levels and aspirations I feel.

I don't think there is a lot to fear (aside from disease management which is my opinion should be much better than larger operators due the ability time wise to do a better job) from smaller legitimate operators. It is certainly in the interest of Commercials to see the small keeper do it properly and well.

We small folk won't put 200 hives across the paddock from yours like some of the biggies we know well.

 

I think you are a go getter @Philbee and your thinking is interesting. Want to put down where you would see your idea going?

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And even though the subject of the more recent posts morphed into proving that you Da Man, that is irrelevant to my point.

Hmm

Im not sure that this "da man " thing is relevant or accurate.

The fact that you are perpetuating it only detracts from the validity of your points IMO, which I see as a shame.

The posted photos were posted ,albeit in the wrong thread, by request of James who made the comment, "Photos or it didn't happen".

Im not "da man", Im just a commercial beek and arnt afraid of some friendly banter with my peers, even vastly superior ones like James for example.

Im all for helping people and dont feel the need to elaborate on this aspect of my life but a line needs to be drawn and whats more that line needs to be respected by beginners.

It is a matter of respect yet often enough comes across as an expectation.

 

@Philbee, while I don't fully support your idea of a Commercial only page I am interested in where you are coming from and thinking of going to with the idea.

The Commercial pages have relevance to all beekeepers, big, small & smaller. We are all in the same playing field just at different levels and aspirations I feel.

I don't think there is a lot to fear (aside from disease management which is my opinion should be much better than larger operators due the ability time wise to do a better job) from smaller legitimate operators. It is certainly in the interest of Commercials to see the small keeper do it properly and well.

We small folk won't put 200 hives across the paddock from yours like some of the biggies we know well.

 

I think you are a go getter @Philbee and your thinking is interesting. Want to put down where you would see your idea going?

Im not going anywhere with it.

Its an opinion that is up for discussion, thats all

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Im not sure that this "da man " thing is relevant or accurate.
You're right it isn't relevant in this thread. But hey, it wasn't anyone else blowing off about their 100 kg hives, 250 nucs, whatever. Oh, you got 250 nucs? While you were probably in nappies, I was running 3,000 nucs. I saw the whole trumpet blowing thing as rather humerous.

 

Pretty much my only point in the thread is I have a different opinion to you about sharing information. I got no issues sharing anything at all I know about bees, with anyone. They can learn, and I still got a lot to learn. Everybody benefits. The attitude of someone thinking they have reached the pinnacle of learning, and now want to turn the tap off to everyone else, is in the long term counter productive.

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You're right it isn't relevant in this thread. But hey, it wasn't anyone else blowing off about their 100 kg hives, 250 nucs, whatever. Oh, you got 250 nucs? While you were probably in nappies, I was running 5,000 nucs. I saw the whole trumpet blowing thing as rather humerous.

 

Pretty much my only point in the thread is I have a different opinion to you about sharing information. I got no issues sharing anything at all I know about bees, with anyone. They can learn, and I still got a lot to learn. Everybody benefits. The attitude of someone thinking they have reached the pinnacle of learning, and now want to turn the tap off to everyone else, is in the long term counter productive.

IMO is a great acronym and so easy to type

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On that basis if it was to work - all posts would be visible so that people could learn. There would be no "private" as in non visible section.

 

A commercial could start a post and reply in commercial

A commercial could not start a post but could reply in beginners

A beginner could not start a post nor reply in commercial

A beginner could start and reply to a post in beginners

A semi commercial would follow the commercial restrictions.

 

upload_2017-2-21_21-53-42.png.f7af071219958ed5b523962a0c3a61fe.png

 

Ok, so maybe the bee researchers could talk to the hobbyists. The suppliers and breeders are commercial. The non's and the wannabees can talk to each other and the honey marketers can just buzz off? Did I leave anyone out. ah yes, so it is all too hard to manage; which is your point I guess. On the other hand the actual proposal from philbee could be more like the shoutbox or at least a different level of shoutbox for which one is hand-picked and where the option simply does not exist unless you are considered by your peers to be at that level. It could be called com-box since shoutbox already exists... Whether it does or does not happens hardly affects me, because it is not my area. But it does seem viable with a shoutbox sort of approach. Basically a private group conversation that isn't saved. People offered it would be people who already give more than they take if I understand correctly.

upload_2017-2-21_21-53-42.png.f7af071219958ed5b523962a0c3a61fe.png

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[ATTACH=full]16908[/ATTACH]

 

Ok, so maybe the bee researchers could talk to the hobbyists. The suppliers and breeders are commercial. The non's and the wannabees can talk to each other and the honey marketers can just buzz off? Did I leave anyone out. ah yes, so it is all too hard to manage; which is your point I guess. On the other hand the actual proposal from philbee could be more like the shoutbox or at least a different level of shoutbox for which one is hand-picked and where the option simply does not exist unless you are considered by your peers to be at that level. It could be called com-box since shoutbox already exists... Whether it does or does not happens hardly affects me, because it is not my area. But it does seem viable with a shoutbox sort of approach. Basically a private group conversation that isn't saved. People offered it would be people who already give more than they take if I understand correctly.

Really good stuff Chris.

Its a complex issue and have you considered the possibility that the potential membership, for want of a better word, could be huge.

Not that this possibility in itself should lend significant weight to such an idea but rather just give an indication of mood.

My gut feeling is that at the end of the day the demarcation of arbitrary boundaries in this environment isnt feasible however the discussion in itself is highly beneficial for all. IMHO

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I often wonder how a paywalled forum that isn't moderated would get on. Say what you want, post what you want but you can only get to it via subscription.

 

Might help those that continually join to only post adverts about their products or website updates, but would there be any other mileage in the private side of things?

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The beginning of the end @Grant ? What you have going here is just so good in so many ways my very humble opinion is that changes are not really required.

Exclusiveness (privacy?) can be handled in so many other ways that are readily available to most already.

The paywall thought for purely commercial buy/sell listings? Yes why not? Where else can a business advertise for nothing? New competitor for a well known trading site that a lot of us use to reach a massive audience.

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As a donor i can not object to paywall. However i think it would achieve opposite result of the OP.

 

The shoutbox only works when you are online. The bop Beekeepers group has a forum. If commercials had their own club/group/soc with a membership then they might inquire about a forum for the group?

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Or, make a private section, put Philbee in charge of it, he decides who is in it plus he can moderate it.

 

Even though I can betcha a membership invite will not be extended to me Ha Ha :D.

 

As it's an exclusive club and of no benefit to the general membership you would be entitled to charge for it Grant, and I think it should be charged for, on a per member basis. Because commercial and possibly financially valuable information will be getting exchanged, in secret.

 

Just please don't close the open Commercial section it's got that helpful truck thread and lots of other good stuff that is of benefit to all, and is contributed to by all.

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Or, make a private section, put Philbee in charge of it, he decides who is in it plus he can moderate it.

 

Even though I can betcha a membership invite will not be extended to me Ha Ha :D

This is ridiculous and sad also Alister.

Phrases like "in charge of it" "He decides", "moderate it", "invite not extended" are all so far removed from who I am that is astounding.

I dont think in those terms.

This whole thread is about getting people to think or consider a point of view or opinion.

That's part of what is great about this site and other sites like it, it gives otherwise voiceless individuals the mean by which to influence others thinking.

That is powerful.

Whats also powerful is the rights and means of others to challenge ideas and points of view.

This thread could have been overpowered with objections and any point.

On a personal note, there is just one type of person that I have little time for in this environment and that is the person who takes but does not contribute.

That is hardly you Alister.:)

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This is ridiculous and sad also Alister.
Actually it was a completely serious suggestion that I had thought pretty much solved the issue. I'll admit the bit about me not getting an invite was probably a throw away line I should have not included, but the rest of the post was I thought, a good idea, or at least what I thought would work with what you want.

 

As to the phrases "in charge of it" "He decides", "moderate it", those things will be issues, especially who is allowed in it. Somebody will have to do all those things, I seriously thought since this whole idea is your baby, that you may be the right guy to do those things, it was not intended negatively at all.

 

I'm now totally confused about what you want. Why not just say, straight up, exactly what you want. I've been arguing against not sharing knowledge with certain people, because I thought that is what you are trying to achieve. But now I don't even know if that's your plan or what. What's the plan?

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I'm now totally confused about what you want. Why not just say, straight up, exactly what you want.

Heres a thought.

If you are in a social situation or even a bee club with a professional or trades person,

On the face of it this may seem like an ideal opportunity to pick some brains, get some free advice etc

Its a life skill to understand how far you can take this apparent opportunity and most people have it sorted but some dont.

Most people understand that it is disrespectful to expect free advice or eavesdrop for advantage.

In an ideal word everyone would be educated in these matters.

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So to repeat, my question was, why not say exactly what you want. Straight up. What's the plan?

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We wouldn't encourage that because then no one learns. Which is the whole point of the site.

I'm on the site because sometimes it can be quite entertaining as well as informative, and I have an addiction to feed.

@Grant may have started the site with the point of creating a learning/support group but I think it's now way past that. It's far cheaper than the movies or dining out too. Have you ever run for national or local politics @Philbee ?

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I say this with tongue in cheek.

Build a wall. Have a sighn on it that reads ,

Commercial beeks only.

( This wall was built and funded by pesky hobbiest and beginner beekeepers.

I'm on the site because sometimes it can be quite entertaining as well as informative, and I have an addiction to feed.

@Grant may have started the site with the point of creating a learning/support group but I think it's now way past that. It's far cheaper than the movies or dining out too. Have you ever run for national or local politics @Philbee ?

Crikey pink cat if he gets into politics he may want a wall built around his commercial bee operation and expect all the pesky nubees and beginners to pay for it.:whistle:

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I've also followed with interest.

#It's not a competition (beekeeping), there is no first prize.

#If your bees a far enough away from others - no economic advantage is to be had by sharing or not sharing information.

#Why would you join a beekeeping forum if not to discuss ideas and learn from others?

#it didn't have an exclusive commercial forum when you (whoever) were attracted here - and doesn't need one now.

#many ideas that could or would be discussed in a commercial forum would need knowledge of others (maybe hobbyists) that have knowledge bases outside of beekeeping.

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What's the plan?

Well at this stage I plan to get my Honey off, Hives treated, split, provisioned and wintered down in half the time its going to take.

I also plan to breed a queen or two for my own use between filling others orders.

Its a simple plan really

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